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Grandfather's Call Sign - Thoughts?

Discussion in 'Becoming an Amateur Radio Operator/Upgrading Privi' started by W0MCB, Jan 1, 2021.

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  1. K7JEM

    K7JEM Ham Member QRZ Page

    47CFR97.19 is the rule you fall under.
     
    W0MCB likes this.
  2. K1LKP

    K1LKP Platinum Subscriber Platinum Subscriber QRZ Page

    CHECK THIS OUT,

    HOPEFULLY IT WILL HELP

    https://www.fcc.gov/wireless/bureau...-radio-service/amateur-vanity-request-types-2


    I SALUTE YOUR
    GRANDFATHER
    FOR HIS SERVICE
    DURING WW II

    A SALUTING COLORFUL[1].jpg

    RESPECTFULLY,
     
    W0MCB and K6CLS like this.
  3. W0MCB

    W0MCB Ham Member QRZ Page

    @K1LKP - Thank you! I appreciate the sentiment. I had read through the links you provided previously, and didn't see anything that attached to my specific scenario. That FCC page is actually less restrictive in nature than Form 605, Schedule D, with the two year requirement.

    @K7JEM - Thank you. I read through the referenced CFR and I didn't see anything that excludes me specifically from having to apply within the two year period following the call sign holder's death. Below is the applicable section. I didn't see anything else in there which would afford me the opportunity to qualify under the close-relative clause in my specific scenario.

    "Except for an applicant who is the spouse, child, grandchild, stepchild, parent, grandparent, stepparent, broth-er, sister, stepbrother, stepsister, aunt, uncle, niece, nephew, or in-law, and except for an applicant who is a club station license trustee acting with the written consent of at least one relative, as listed above, of a person now deceased, the call sign shown on the license of person now deceased is not available to the vanity call sign system for 2 years following the person’s death, or for 2 years following the expiration of the license grant, whichever is sooner."

    BUT....then I found this info from an ARRL letter in 2009!
    Basically, in a nutshell, the way I interpret the FCC's ruling below is that the two year grace period clock re-starts each time a call sign is canceled, expired, etc., likely in reference to the above section stating "...or for 2 years following the expiration of the license grant". I just assumed that section was specifically related to the associated call sign holder who died, and not for every subsequent instance of the the call sign being canceled or expired.

    It's good news if what I'm assuming is accurate!

    ==> FCC AFFIRMS VANITY CALL SIGN RULES

    The FCC dismissed a petition filed by Richard Essen, N6CX (ex-AB3IQ), of
    Silver Spring, Maryland, regarding the issuance of a vanity call sign to
    Allan Corderman
    <http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-09-997A1.pdf >. In
    its decision, the FCC said that Corderman's application for his new call
    sign was valid and the call sign was "properly granted" by the FCC.

    On December 22, 2006, Winfield Brantley of Myrtle Beach, South Carolina,
    surrendered his call sign -- W3ZD -- when the FCC approved his
    application for a new call sign. On December 10, 2008, Allan Corderman,
    WB1EFN, of New Orleans, Louisiana, applied for W3ZD, stating he was a
    close relative of a former holder of the call sign. Section 97.19(c)(3)
    of the FCC rules regarding vanity call signs state that while a
    surrendered call sign is not available to the vanity call sign system
    for two years, certain relatives of the deceased former holder or clubs
    (in certain circumstances) may apply for the call sign in the two year
    "grace period"
    <http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2002/octqtr/pdf/47cfr97.19.pdf>.
    Corderman stated in his application that he was the son of Roy C.
    Corderman, now deceased, and a former holder of W3ZD.

    In January 2009, Richard Essen, N6CX (ex-AB3IQ), of Silver Spring,
    Maryland, petitioned the FCC, asking that the Commission reconsider
    Corderman's application for W3ZD, saying that the application should not
    have been granted because the exception in the vanity call sign system's
    rules apply only to close survivors of the most recent person to hold
    the call sign, and not to close relatives of any deceased prior holder.

    The FCC disagreed with Essen's petition, saying that "[w]hen the
    Commission adopted Section 97.19(c)(3), it stated that it was granting
    priority to 'close relatives of deceased holders,' and did not say that
    the priority applied only to close relatives of certain deceased
    holders. The rule has always been interpreted to afford priority to
    close relatives of any deceased former holder."

    According to Section 97.19(c)(3), "Except for an applicant who is the
    spouse, child, grandchild, stepchild, parent, grandparent, stepparent,
    brother, sister, stepbrother, stepsister, aunt, uncle, niece, nephew, or
    in-law, and except for an applicant who is a club station license
    trustee acting with the written consent of at least one relative, as
    listed above, of a person now deceased, the call sign shown on the
    license of [a] person now deceased is not available to the vanity call
    sign system for 2 years following the person's death, or for 2 years
    following the expiration of the license grant, whichever is sooner."

    Thanks again!
     
    KU4X, N0NC and K1LKP like this.
  4. W0MCB

    W0MCB Ham Member QRZ Page

    Quick Follow-Up Question:

    On my way to AE. Passed Tech a few days ago (KF0DLX). I should have just taken the General at the same time. Oh well. With that said, once I acquire my AE class and submit for the vanity modification, should I just get ahead of the game and submit the requisite birth/death certificates via the "document upload" tool on the application page to show my relationship to my grandfather, or just wait for the FCC to reach out? I'm not sure how they validate the relationship otherwise. I'm guessing they open a "case" and have me send items via a support page or the like. Thanks!
     
    N4FZ likes this.
  5. N2EY

    N2EY XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    I'm no expert on this, but....

    It seems to me that you'd want to send in all the required documents with the application, rather than wait for FCC to "reach out". IOW, make it easy for them to say yes.

    73 es GL de Jim, N2EY
     
  6. K4PIH

    K4PIH Ham Member QRZ Page

    Go for it! Mine is my fathers. If you are a close relative and fit the FCC rules, I don't think you have to wait for the 2 year grace period. I could be mistaken but when the holder of my dad's call went SK, I was able to get it ASAP due to being his son.
     
  7. N0NC

    N0NC Ham Member QRZ Page

    @W0MCB How is the studying going? Good luck with upgrading and getting you grandfather's call. Keep us posted.

    73, Chuck
    N0NC
     
  8. W0MCB

    W0MCB Ham Member QRZ Page

    @N0NC Hi Chuck. Thanks for checking in. Passed my General today. I actually made a decision about a week ago to stick with W0MCB as my permanent call sign. I went back and forth on the decision quite a bit. In the end, I wanted something that was specific to me and original. W0MCB has never been used as far as I can gather. I read through all the old Radio Amateur Call Books, the old Dept. of Commerce publications, AE7Q.com, etc. and didn't see a reference to it anywhere. Furthermore, it's local to my region as well. It was about an homage to him originally, but I don't think not requesting his sign is an insult either. It was never about an easy avenue to a "1X2" for me. I never considered that important. I'm sure someone else will be really excited to grab it, so hopefully whoever does, doesn't dump it 2 weeks later to apply for another one. Hopefully it's appreciated. There are a lot of crazies who just hoard call signs. Doesn't make sense to me. They really need to change the rules, but that's a can of worms in and of itself. Who knows, I may change my mind in a week or two. Ha. I'm still planning on passing the Extra regardless. We shall see. Although, I did just order an "LED" desk sign with W0MCB so if I do change my mind again, that's just another expense.....the "shack" build out is already taking its toll! haha. Take care and thanks again.
     
    K0UO likes this.
  9. N0NC

    N0NC Ham Member QRZ Page

    Hi Mike, Ok on sticking with your W0MCB call, nothing wrong with that either. I can understand wanting a call in the proper area, I had a Hawaii call after I retired from the Navy, and had had it for the last part of my time in the service. But I knew I was never going back to Hawaii and it caused a lot of confusion, so I changed it to a zero area call. When I upgraded to extra, I wanted an extra class callsign and ended up with a AB0 prefix, which I wasn't too pleased with. So when they started lowering the code speed, I decided that if I wanted a 1x2 call I had to get it then or forget about it. I got N0NC and have had it for 20+ years now. It was also an unused call sign, at least I can't find any mention of it in old call books. I know some people get all bent out of shape about people not having the right area call, but I've run into calls from the wrong area a lot. People move around these days, and if they've had a call for a while and friends on the air know you by that call they don't want to change.

    If you wanted your Grandfathers call, I wouldn't let it being out of area stop you. If you like W0MCB that's good too. Although I think W1NV is an easier call on CW, so there is that. At any rate, congratulations on the upgrade to general. Keep up the good work.

    73, Chuck
    N0NC
     
    W0MCB likes this.
  10. W0MCB

    W0MCB Ham Member QRZ Page

    Thanks again Chuck. Yeah, the locale is not a big deal to me and it doesn't seem to be an annoyance to most people these days. It was just one of the items that added it to the sum total of the decision. It's like a cell # these days. Doesn't matter like the only land lines did. Ha.
     

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