Generator usage....

Discussion in 'On the Road' started by KH8AC, Jan 29, 2020.

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  1. KH8AC

    KH8AC Ham Member QRZ Page

    Please just some simple replies. (I am simple ?)

    Portable operating.


    Batteries. They weigh so much they can almost be useless. I speak of 75-150 lb units like allot of marine batteries. Simple but start lugging them around. I actually tore my shoulder muscles from these things. (I have yapped about this not looking for ANY sympathy but just trying to relate such can be very uncomfortable !!!) There are dolly's and hand trucks that make moving these quite easy but the bottom line there is going to be lifting lifting lifting. No tool to help. Maybe it is in physics but some 'crane' type tool for lifting weighs more than the batteries.

    Lithium. Until they have smart ones (built in devices so you don't fry them) one can loose allot of money. Then the cost ? I have put these questions out before about specific recommendations but never anything. Like walk into Home Depot and buy ____________ and cost and experience. (of coarse you can buy anywhere)
    Is there an economical solution ? I see some Lithium's also at 75+ pounds.

    Could somebody elaborate on the Mighty Max brand and maybe even a choice ? I just mention this brand as it is sold by Home Depot that can have very liberal warranties and especially if bought on THEIR credit card.

    https://www.mightymaxbattery.com/c585/lifepo4.html

    As of now I am just looking for a battery to power a 100 watt transceiver out in the woods somewhere.



    Generators. Lets just talk Honda. (they at least have a reputation) The 1100 model advertised at 1000 watts has receptacles that have maximum ratings at 8 amps. Most transceivers draw 20-25 amps ? For about the same price the 2200 model that weights maybe 60 pounds to begin with and that does not even have a rating 20-25 amps. I'm missing something.

    I'd guess the 1100 model could be used for strictly QRP ? The 2200 model can run a 100 watt transceiver ? Maximum rating 18 amps.


    What am I missing ?

    I have asked in similar threads in past and when zeroing in on somebodies suggestions/experience ahhh what... no email address ? Talking to one person avoids the thousands of different solutions.
     
  2. K8MHZ

    K8MHZ Ham Member QRZ Page

     
  3. K8MHZ

    K8MHZ Ham Member QRZ Page

    8 amps at 120 volts is roughly 80 amps at 12 volts. Basic Ohm's Law.
     
    K0UO likes this.
  4. K8MHZ

    K8MHZ Ham Member QRZ Page

    It looks like the 1100 and the 2200 in the name also refers to the amount of watts the generator is rated for. Either should be more than adequate for a 100 watt radio.
     
  5. KV6O

    KV6O Ham Member QRZ Page

    You might want to look into running 10-15W or so, you can cut your battery size (and weight) by a factor of 10 or so. Focus on a better antenna to make up the difference.
     
  6. K8HIT

    K8HIT Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    Two honda gensets can be paired together to provide 120VAC at a higher current (30 A), look for a EU2200 Companion. This is how we power our camper.
     
  7. KD0CAC

    KD0CAC Ham Member QRZ Page




    Batteries , start with https://batteryuniversity.com/

    Some of the issues are only getting worse , peoples understanding / and willingness to learn & do there own work .
    VS. buying a black-box and getting what they want [[[[ big issue here , what they want may have no basis in reality / physics ]]]] .

    Do not get all upset , in this format , a question from one individual , is question & answers / discussion for everyone , so most replies are general / generic , we are all talking to many all reading .
    As an individual answering , I can not know what you know , or not .

    " Marine " batteries or marine/RV batteries are the industry trying to sell , " trying to sell " is where a lot of what is getting worse is at , SELLING is less nowdays getting to the point of more commonly a lot of lies .
    Like generators , about 20-30 yrs. ago the LARGE NUMBERS on the generators were stating continuous / constant , NOW the large numbers are stating the surge , and the small numbers are the continuous rating .
    Marine / RV batteries are a compromise of starting & deep-cycle , which gives less performance of either a starting or deep-cycle battery --- and in almost any case are more expensive then a quality of either .
    So now the problem is compounded by the newer culture - less involved with products - wanting turnkey use / black box , and manufactures / sellers being less honest .

    Lead base batteries are problematic especially when the need of portable is in the mix - lead is heavy , and deep-cycle batteries have a common concept of capacity of being able to deep discharge to 80 % , starting batteries 20% discharge .
    Problem here is the correct [ for long life ] deep-cycle should be setup for 50% discharge .
    Typically most quality true deep-cycle batteries that are match to the intended use , IF discharged 80% will maybe make the claimed capacity / warrantee - most deep-cycles have a 90 day warrantee , vs. starting batteries are around 78 months .
    My last solar charged battery bank 4 Trojan L16 , 2 parallel sets in series for 12 volts [ running air conditioning & everything else full-time RVing ]
    lasted 13 yrs. , died because I got the grid , did not use one winter and they froze [ discharged batteries will freeze , charged will but at about -60 f ] .

    Lithium batteries come is 6 different chemistries , each having different uses [ kinda like lead batteries starting , deepcycle , FLD , GEL , AGM ect. ] .
    LiFePO4 are a good compromise for your use , Lithium ion being second of the 6 .
    Much like any subject quality costs more up front and pays off in the long run .
    Assuming a properly designed & operated system - need both match battery to use .
    Lithium are far cheaper in the long run than any other commonly available battery chemistry .
    A couple of spec.s between lead & lithium , using a system I am setting up for a friends boat just the accessory battery , not the starting batteries [ but with a switch , he can use either for either - in case the starting battery fails - he can switch the acc. in to start .
    2 , 6 volt deep cycle / golf cart batteries 100 amp hr rating [ only 50% available ] = 50 amp hr , $185 x 2 = $370
    1 , 12v lithium one of the best heard of a few days ago 100 amp hr 90% available , $460
    Cycle life of lead battery about 2000 , so again correct used a 10 yrs life .
    Cycle life if lithium battery about 6000 - 10,000 + , so real world life 20-30 ?
    General benefits of lithium for the same use ,
    1/4 the weight
    1/2 the volume
    almost double the capacity
    almost 1/2 the time to charge
    partial charge ok vs. lead should be fully charged immediately after discharge [ sulfation issues ]
    no off gassing
    There's more but too long ;)
    COST HALF as much amortized above setup lead $37 per yr , 20 per yr
    Cycle life of lithium 10,000
     
    W7EDC likes this.
  8. KH8AC

    KH8AC Ham Member QRZ Page

    I thank you for reply.

    Very informative.

    I just spent another session at surfing the internet and places like EHAM/QRZ and what does any long thread bring ? All conflicting opinions. Then it soon wanders into pictures of monster generators and batteries and tales from 1942. i.e. strays from the original simple question....

    Batteries all confusion.


    I figure I have to do what I tried to avoid. Spend money to try this and that.

    Honda seems to have the best reputation with generators.

    If one ever tore their arm/back muscle they probably think twice about the weight thing. Just a Honda 2200 weighs 60 lbs ? Hiking up mountains ?

    I think I have to buy that Honda 1100? unit at 29 pounds and play with QRP for awhile. Nobody can say if that will power a 100 watt transceiver and how long.

    I sit on 4 of these

    https://www.homedepot.com/p/Nautilus-31-Deep-Cycle-Marine-Battery-31MDC/205309650 and nobody can say if they can power a 100 watt transceiver and how long.

    Those Mighty Max at Home Depot



    https://www.mightymaxbattery.com/p3878828/ml100-12li-12v-100ah-deep-cycle-lithium-battery.html


    maybe can power a 100 watt transceiver for a short time. 29 and half pounds

    Hate to waste $800.


    There will be math. How many variables can be in the calculations ?
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2020
  9. KD0CAC

    KD0CAC Ham Member QRZ Page

    Your last line is something only you can come with " the math " converter what you have to numbers , all your answers are there .
    The biggest variable is your use , set up in the back yard , so you do not have to carry and then operate as intended WHILE measuring accurately with current over time recording ability .

    2 big differences , are you going to spin the VFO looking for signals - a lot less power ?
    Or are you going to stay on one frequency calling - a lot more power ?

    Wasting money is buying the batteries you have and then try to figure things out ?

    I would sell those batteries to an RVer or boat person to recover some funds and then gather numbers through measurements , try to find ways to consume less , when that is to low as you can get with what you want , then use the number to gather gear .
     
  10. K7JEM

    K7JEM Ham Member QRZ Page

    Your generator has to run a 12v power supply that will run your radio. If you are using a switching supply, you will need around 300-400 watts or so to power that. An analog supply might require 400-600 watts. In any case, an 1100 watt generator will run it just fine. How long it can supply the power will depend on how much gasoline you bring to feed the generator.

    A 115ah battery will run your 100W rig anywhere from a few hours to all day, depending on how much you transmit, which no one knows.
     

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