FT8 lids

Discussion in 'Ham Radio Discussions' started by N8ZI, Dec 13, 2019.

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  1. N8ZI

    N8ZI XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    While playing around with "Robot Radio" FT modes, I have encountered too many lids.
    Just the other day, while answering a great DX station, this newbie lid K4B?? jumps in and starts TXing on the DX frequency at the same interval as the DX !! Needless to say all I could decode was this lid calling and calling. For 12 minutes he continued until I gave up and QSYed to my favorite mode, CW. I'm sure he destroyed a lot of other stations chances as well.
    I sent him a kindly email to inform him of his errors and his reply was he did nothing wrong and that everyone told him that was how to operate properly. Doubling with the DX is most deffinantly NOT how to operate.

    Another issue is he had no clue not to TX on the DX frequency as the DX is not listening there. FT8 software will automatically notify the DX you are answering them, no matter what frequency in the 3kHz window you transmit from. When you call on his frequency you are causing QRM and quite possibly will get kicked out of TX mode when other stations call the DX. That might be acceptable for casual contacts but I doubt it for DX in pileups.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I do believe proper practice is to find an open spot then lock your TX frequency and call CQ or answer the DX.
    Their RX will automatically adjust to your TX and the contact will complete.

    These are just a few issues I have encountered lately so let's attempt to educate others so we can all enjoy the hobby.

    I wouldn't be operating "Robot Radio" except new contacts get sparse once over 315 DXCC so I resorted to new adventures to amuse myself.

    Tom N8ZI
  2. K8HIT

    K8HIT Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    Did you respond to his comments and attempt to mentor him? Show him a better way.

    You could have moved your tx freq and continued your quest for 316.
    N4RRR, N7UJU, KA0HCP and 1 other person like this.
  3. N0DZQ

    N0DZQ Ham Member QRZ Page

    Wow, a bit presumptive calling an individual a LID not knowing the facts behind the station's transmitting etiquette. What band were you operating? Might be a possibility the station did not hear the other, or you. Distance and equipment play a lot in what others hear. The response you received does not surprise me if you did in fact send something to the fact of pointing out errors.

    Kindness, knowing the facts, and guidance go a long way in prompting the hobby.
    W0CAC, N4RRR, N4DJT and 2 others like this.
  4. KK5JY

    KK5JY Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    Either way is fine. There's no "rule" requiring you to operate "split," not even for DX. Many people do, and there are times it has advantages for one side or the other, but it's not required. Some people actually misuse split and clobber other people while doing it, even when it doesn't have an advantage.

    For people who operate "robot radio" as you called it, there's an advantage to calling CQ on a "clear" slot, because it helps you hold a frequency while you operate, even if you pounce another station now and then between CQs.

    That said, you are quite right, there's a lot of misbehavior on FT8... much like there is a lot of misbehavior on my route to/from work every day. :oops:
    W2VW, KD4IEM, W4POT and 3 others like this.
  5. N8ZI

    N8ZI XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    Yes his errors were mentioned and he realizes them now. Yes several emails were exchanged guiding him to better procedures and links to FT8 tips and tricks.

    Moving my TX frequency does absolutely zero good as that station was wiping out all TX from the DX.
    No different than the DX operating split SSB and a stronger more local station transmits on top of the DX.
  6. N4NYK

    N4NYK Ham Member QRZ Page

    QRM is a normal occurrence while using FT8. Might as well not get too upset about it:)
    W9FL, KA0HCP and K0UO like this.
  7. W5TTP

    W5TTP Ham Member QRZ Page

    There are lids, and there there are jackass frequency po-leeze. It is a hobby for all humanity. Maybe why it is monikered "Amateur" Radio.
    NH6RF, N8VIL, KA4DPO and 2 others like this.
  8. N8ZI

    N8ZI XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    The interfering station is a new Ham and just upgraded to General on Dec 6, 2019. He admitted to never working FT8 modes before and not knowing how to operate.

    Obviously he knew who he was calling as it was the same DX entity I was calling and his TX was on that very same DX TX frequency at the same interval aka "doubling".
    A few interfering transmissions is an honest mistake anyone, including myself, makes.
    This went on for over 12 minutes. After 6 minutes of no replies, the watchdog will stop your transmission and you have to cycle it again. Anyone with any knowledge would notice you no longer see the DX answering other stations in the right FT8 window. Only your transmissions are there for more than 12 minutes which equates to 24 lines of your message and ZERO of anyone else.
    That is just common sense that something is amiss.
  9. N8ZI

    N8ZI XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    Yes QRM is normal in every mode because not many Ham's follow the rules of conduct and fail to educate themselves. They keep repeating the same ill practices over and over again.
    This is why they are referred to as "lids".
    N4NYK likes this.
  10. KP4SX

    KP4SX Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    I often see guys calling a DX station in his own time slot. Takes effort to screw up that badly.
    KA4DPO and N8ZI like this.

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