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Friendly Reminder - BAND PLANS, folks

Discussion in 'General Announcements' started by K0OKS, Oct 7, 2017.

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  1. W7UUU

    W7UUU Director, QRZ Forums Lifetime Member 133 QRZ HQ Staff Life Member QRZ Page

    I like pie :)

    Dave
    W7UUU
     
    N7ANN likes this.
  2. K0OKS

    K0OKS Ham Member QRZ Page

    But what kind of pie :eek:

    I like all kinds.
     
  3. W7UUU

    W7UUU Director, QRZ Forums Lifetime Member 133 QRZ HQ Staff Life Member QRZ Page

    In truth, I've not had pie in quite a few years. Never been into sweets actually. I count that as a good thing - my first cavity was at age 47 and I attribute a life-long non interest in sweets to that. But - if I had to pick one, it would be hands down blackberry pie a-la-mode, warmed before the ice cream - made from berries from my own pickings. Yessir - I've had that a few times and it was a treat indeed.

    I'm just glad I'm not drawn to stuff like that - I'd be the size of a barn I'm sure :) I try to keep fit and healthy. Knock on wood.

    :)

    Dave
    W7UUU
     
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  4. WR2E

    WR2E XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    It was the best of times, it was the worst of times...
     
  5. KK5JY

    KK5JY Ham Member QRZ Page

    Not at all. You said ARRL was the most-used band plan. I said I would like to see numbers supporting that. You brought it up. Moving on...
    Let's look at what ARRL says about band plans:

    A band plan refers to a voluntary division of a band to avoid interference between incompatible modes. ...

    Significant regional variations in both current band utilization and the intensity and frequency distribution of noise sources preclude one plan that is suitable for all parts of the country. These variations will require many regional frequency coordinators to maintain band plans that differ in some respects from any national plan. As with all band plans, locally coordinated plans always take precedence over any general recommendations such as a national band plan.

    Note that even ARRL acknowledges that there are many different plans, recommended by different people for different reasons, and that such variation is both inevitable and necessary.
    You're getting closer. What you just described is a typical watering hole. Several modes do that, and there's nothing wrong with that. That said, operation contrary to the band plan isn't a problem unless it generates intentional QRM.
    How many times do I have to answer this? No. By the same token, you can't just expect that frequency to always be available for SSTV, just because it's on the band plan.

    Let's back up a second. Your original post:
    You are very correct that people running SSB should make sure they are not splattering into someone else's QSO. The "overlap" problem is particularly common with SSB ops.

    The reason I even commented on this to start with is that there are no frequencies allocated for SSTV. There are recommended frequencies in ARRL's band plan. Apples and oranges. When I read your OP it makes it sound like the freqs you mentioned were somehow reserved, and that is not just untrue, it's contrary to the CFR:

    47 CFR 97.101(b): Each station licensee and each control operator must cooperate in selecting transmitting channels and in making the most effective use of the amateur service frequencies. No frequency will be assigned for the exclusive use of any station.

    FCC says we are required to cooperate, but prohibits us from taking that so far as to attempt to allocate "exclusive" frequencies beyond those mandated elsewhere in Part 97.

    Next:
    Again, this makes it sound like you are trying to "hold" a frequency open for SSTV. Transmitting on an otherwise clear frequency where others are only monitoring is not interference, and there's nothing wrong with doing so.
     
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  6. K0OKS

    K0OKS Ham Member QRZ Page

    Correct... it seems we agree.

    Was only ever asking people to be gentlemanly (womanly) and *try* to avoid using that frequency if possible. I should have said "try" and "when possible" in the original posting, which I think is the part with which what you took umbrage.

    It was in now way meant to mean "you can't be here, go away." In reviewing my original post I do see how it could possibly have been interpreted that way. Sorry for the confusion.
     
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  7. N2UHC

    N2UHC Ham Member QRZ Page

    Call me Ishmael...
     
  8. WR2E

    WR2E XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    It was a bright cold day in April, and the clocks were striking thirteen.
     
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  9. K3LI

    K3LI Ham Member QRZ Page

    Nope SSTV
     
  10. OE2RPL

    OE2RPL XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    I would like to kindly remember that all IARU bandplans for all regions specify 14230 as the SSTV frequency (they call it image center of activity). So it is not just an ARRL thing, it is a world wide agreement. Of course, you are not bound legally to a IARU recommendation, but it would be clever not to ignore well planned bandplans. This the wording of the introduction of the band plan:
    The IARU Region 2 has established this band plan as the way to better organize the use of our bands efficiently. To the extent possible, this band plan is harmonized with those of the other regions. It is suggested that Member Societies, in coordination with the authorities, incorporate it in their regulations and promote it widely with their radio amateur communities.

    73 de Peter
     
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  11. KK5JY

    KK5JY Ham Member QRZ Page

    So it's an even bigger request for exclusive channel for a single mode? Where does it stop?

    JT65/FT8/JT9 and their brethren now occupy the better part of 10kHz in each of the digital subbands. If they convince ARRL to list those items in the "band plan," does that mean that we have 10kHz less digital mode spectrum because of one guy's invention? Naturally those guys will say "heck yeah," but where does it stop?

    What you quoted is simply a statement on the coordination between IARU and their member societies.

    There's a reason why FCC (mostly) doesn't engage in mode-related allocations. They understand the concept of shared spectrum, and as a result, all band plans are voluntary, and their use is subordinate to current band and traffic conditions. Even ARRL says that in the footnotes to their band plan(s).
     
    N2EY likes this.
  12. K0OKS

    K0OKS Ham Member QRZ Page

    If new, useful, and utilized modes appear then they will likely get a spot on the bandplans. This is what bandplans are for... To keep those modes from going all over the place and come to an agreement on where they should go.

    SSTV has been on these bandplans for decades. Nothing new here.

    That "one guy's invention" (JT9/65FT8) is a very heavily used collection of modes, far exceeding SSB and CW in QSO count. The QSOs are not very personal IMHO, but those modes cannot be ignored.

    Note that there is not a giant influx of new hams, so the QSOs are simply changing modes, and thus changing places on the bands. It more people move to a new mode the utilized areas of the band will be expanded for those modes in the bandplans.

    It doesn't stop. And why should it? If new technologies come along to improve communication then the bandplans will adapt, unlike some hams. We don't need the great and powerful government to tell us how to run our spectrum.
     
  13. K2HAT

    K2HAT Premium Subscriber Volunteer Moderator Volunteer DX Helper QRZ Page

    More than once this happened on more than one Frequency, not just 14.230; but that seemed to be the worst in 2014 when I was active for the ARRL Centennial QSO Party.

    I have listened for 5 minutes and called 3 times, asking is the Frequency in use, to get no reply.

    10 minutes later I am getting QRM from someone who did not ask if the Frequency was in use. ;) 73 K2HAT

    Now It is rare for me to get on the air unless chasing some rarer DX.
     
  14. WA6MHZ

    WA6MHZ Ham Member QRZ Page

    What really gets DICEY is on Field day when our transmitter strays near 14.300!! The Channel cops for that Maritime Mobil net get exceptionally Nasty. I have been chased off because I got within 5KCs of their PRIVATE FREQUENCY!!!
     
  15. KK5JY

    KK5JY Ham Member QRZ Page

    I see where you are coming from, and I mostly agree with what you are saying. :cool:

    That said, when the band plan is used to tell other people that they can't use an open frequency because the band plan says that frequency is for another mode, that's where the "band plan" argument has gone too far.
     

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