Fears Sweden's new driving regs may hit amateurs

See my remarks above. A good solution would be to use bluetooth and connect to the car's handsfree system.

 

This is precisely why I am trying to get FCC's attention on this issue. Not to argue the point (there are other threads regarding this), it IS the very reason we MUST act NOW to stop this. IMHO, such laws are ILLEGAL at the outset because they overstep FCC's regulatory authority over ALL licensed two way radio activity. This includes amateur, CB and commercial two way. We need FCC to step in. We need ARRL to step up and lobby for rulings to prevent such state nonsense. The crux if it is, the states do not know what the h** they are doing, and they do not know the difference in a cell phone and a two way radio. Is it not utterly hypocritical to ask amateurs to respond during a disaster in one breath, and then give them tickets in the next?

 

This is also justification for using VOX when running mobile just as it should be, if not already, better to use cell phones in hands-free mode (turn on the phone's speaker) and keep the phone in its holder on the dash.

This is all about control by people who too often think they are smarter than the people who are on the ground doing the work.

 

The state of Vermont also passed a cellphone law but exempted ham radio as well as CB radios. The law cited no reported accidents involving ham radio operators and the need for hams for local and national emergencies.

 

You're driving a 2000lb+ killing machine and one can only give 100% attention to one thing at a time. Best it be your driving vs ragchewing some pointless conversation for fun. If it's so important, pull over.

Whilst I appreciate the amateur radio exemptions when they happen, I'm not sure it's a good idea to give a "pass" just because you're FCC licensed. A radio is no less distracting than a cell phone. Even if you can argue it's "less", it's still a distraction. Focus on your driving, as that's more important than any net you check into.

Anyone recall a question in the test pool that had to do with distracted driving? Until we're at least as well-trained (assuming) as the REAL e-comms folks are, better to leave that mic on the hook.

 

Before taking away everyone's ability to operate a radio mobile, let's see some data. How many have died or caused death because they keyed a microphone?

Just like where some bleeding hearts with no sense of direction want to take over 200 million gun owners guns away because one demented or drug affected guy kills school children, it bears further thought.

I have yet to see any notices of a ham dying or causing death because he keyed a microphone. We can surely imagine it can happen just like we can imagine a bunch of things but those dire imaginings don't buy much hay. First, let's ask how many mobile operators have people heard on HF? Sure, there are some but there are tons more UHF/VHF operators or those who could operate in these bands. However, the high majority of communications while in a car is with cell phones. The almost dead activity on repeaters nowadays is an indication of the trend to use the phone instead of a microphone while mobile. Cell phones are what lead to most highway "accidents" and I contend that this is because primarily those are the result of using the phones while in a car by people who are not radio operators, they are by people who are more into just talking on the phone.

I have done some mobile operation but have pulled over to get the radio tuned up and ready. Most of the action is tuning in a station and then talking after establishing contact. This only requires one hand... This is no more dangerous than with some who smoke, eat a hamburger or drink a soft drink while driving. And how many accidents could be attributable to sightseeing or applying makeup or trying to read the license plate ahead? I suspect that more accidents occur from these things than by talking to a microphone.

Should there then be a law that all drivers must keep BOTH hands locked on the steering wheel in some kind of death grip while driving? Can there be no middle ground?

"But if one life can be saved...." is the rant of an emotional person but that response is not based on actual data, it usually comes right after some people die due to the action/s of a couldn't care-less, demented or abnormally affected person and not from some inborn sense of caring about others. Most often, too, it is the result of parroting the emotions of others.

Most mobile radio manuals have a section dedicated to results-oriented operating and safety is usually emphasized. This is not a section of the book to be glossed over. Much better is to operate mobile and later be able to brag about it.

Again, show me the data... Please?

 

I get that you want the benefits, who doesn't, but distracted driving is distracted driving, regardless of what you're doing. And you can't operate a radio and not be at least a bit distracted from what you should be doing. Like I said, you can only give 100% attention. Best it be on the more dangerous tasks vs something completely unnecessary as operating your electronic toys. (And I get ya gotta do what ya gotta do in an emergency, either as part of your job or a civilian.)

As far as your points; First of all, amateur radio doesn't have the ability to give the same amount of data a cell-phone can. Can't ask someone dead what they were doing, but you can pull up phone records, or the phone itself, and see if it was in use. Me, I'm rather glad our radios don't keep logs!

There likely is no study for amateur radio and accidents as it's not a mainstream issue. Yet. Although curious, I fear our benefits would be even further curtailed if that study surfaced.
But here's one of several pages a search will give that say operating a car radio is the 2nd most distracting thing we do:
https://www.maggianolaw.com/car-radios-distracted-driving-accidents

[Worth reading... click the link in that page to go to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration source data.]

Another page offers this; The president of the National Safety Council once said, although with the pretense that there is no related study she was aware of; "... that is not to say that there is no risk associated with drivers using amateur or two-way radios. Best safety practice is to have one’s full attention on their driving, their hands on the wheel and their eyes on the road. Drivers who engage in any activity that impairs any of these constitutes an increased risk."

Say you survive the accident, I'd wager very few are going to willingly admit to using the radio (or any distraction) when it happened.
Only two percent from this finding. Yeah, it's regarding the car stereo, but easier and less cognitively distracting than having a conversation on a transceiver.
https://one.nhtsa.gov/people/injury/drowsy_driving1/survey-distractive03/summary.htm

It's a stretch of imagination to think that of all the mobile operators, in all of time, of all the countries, no on has ever had an accident from using a radio while driving.

As far as your guns comment, as a firearms instructor, hell, as a logical human being, you'll never see me compare the apples to bricks of distracted driving versus intentional killings.

Lastly, I'm GLAD we can use our radios and get exemptions. I've sent a few letters to my reps over the years to support that benefit. But, like you, I want my cake and eat it too!

 

Several hams in the Hampton Roads area visited their representives to ask about excluding hams. Plus I know several clubs mentioned it on their weekly nets and asked members to write their representives, about amending the bill. As was mentioned the bill died in committee, but there are four other hands free bills still in the mix. They don't mention ham radio, but that could lead to interpitation by the police officers. So will have to wait & see if they make it out of committee.

 

Sorry Frank but I have to disagree with you. A radio is far less distracting than a cell phone. I am a retired police officer with 4 years military law enforcement and 33 years civilian PD. Most of my career was spent in patrol and therefore had to investigate a thousand if not more crashes. I cannot site one single example of where the crash was attributed to the operation of a two way radio. (Note I specified two way radio and not just amateur in order to widen the field). As I moved on up through the ranks, as a supervisor, I reviewed countless more crash reports and not a single one was attributed to two-way radio use. As I concluded my career as Patrol Division Commander, I reviewed even more crash reports. Not one single crash attributed to two way radio use. This includes, ham, CB, taxi cabs, utility service vehicles, etc. Not ONE SINGLE crash. As cell phones became popular and texting was incorporated into the phones, I saw quite a few crashes attributed to that. Add to that the reports I didn't review such as from other agencies but speaking with their officers and supervisors, there was no mention of any crash attributed to the use of any two-way radio.

Mobile two way use has been around for at least 70 years and probably longer and up until now hasn't even been a blip on the radar. Lots of stats on cell phone and text use causing crashes but I cannot find one single case attributed to the use of any two way mobile radio contributing to a vehicle crash.
Andy
W4KDN

 

(NOTE TO SELF) Self..on my way to Alaska, go around Oregon...

 

First of all, the antennas on your vehicle is NOT justifiable probable cause to make a vehicle stop. He was fishing, and under any departments REGS/Laws is a violation of your rights. The problem is exercising your objection in an appropriate manner, as not to bring on yourself more head aches.

In regards to the Distracted driving law, there are provisions in the law that exempt EMS/Law Enforcement, just because of the nature of their job.

The people that enacted these laws, had good intentions(maybe), but didn't examine all the aspects of their actions prior to approving them. Like Amateur Radio Operators assist in emergency communications. Who do they call for help when their high tech information network goes south, The Amateur Radio Operator!

 

Retired LEO too and I have to second the observation on never seeing or hearing of a crash related to two-way radio operation. Cell phones, yes; two-way radio, no.

 

Isn't pot legal in Oregon????

 

According to the Feds, it's not legal in any State.

 

Nailed...!