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FCC proposes new filing fee structure, new fees for ham radio

Discussion in 'Amateur Radio News' started by KU3N, Aug 27, 2020.

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  1. N3FAA

    N3FAA XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    Not trying to be insulting. I literally have absolutely no idea what the hell you're saying. Ask who? The FCC? They already said their motivations for the fee.
  2. N3FAA

    N3FAA XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    Could be. We have no idea. The problem is that people aren't even willing to pay that.
  3. K7JEM

    K7JEM Ham Member QRZ Page

    I think most people will pay whatever the amount is. My problem with this is that it's supposed to cover costs, not make money. But $50 is way too much. It doesn't cost that much to process the applications, it simply cannot.
    1 person likes this.
  4. N3FAA

    N3FAA XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    The FCC's calculation and how they came up with their figures is right in Paragraph 11. So their estimates are wrong but yours are correct?

    I don't know the figure either. I don't work for the FCC. I don't know their expenses or costs for processing an application. Does it seem steep? Maybe. Maybe not.
    K2NCC likes this.
  5. K7JEM

    K7JEM Ham Member QRZ Page

    Does it seem like they should have 36 full time employees working on nothing but amateur renewals and new licenses?
    N6ATF likes this.
  6. N3FAA

    N3FAA XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    No idea. I don't work for them. Again, it's all just speculation.

    If I had to come up with my own figures, I would say it costs about $16 to process an application. But again, I have no idea, how long it takes, or what is involved. Those are just my figures based on the costs and some reasonable estimates. Again...we're just guessing.
  7. AB7Q

    AB7Q XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    The government will never find enough ways to suck our wallets dry.
    N9EAW and N6ATF like this.
  8. NN3W

    NN3W Ham Member QRZ Page

    As a starting point on what it "costs":
    We estimate labor cost per hour for the various general schedule pay grades of the employees that process applications based on the 2020 federal government pay table for Washington DC, at the step 5 level, as we currently do under our Freedom Of Information Act rules; we estimate overhead costs at 20% of the salary level also per that rule, and we estimate each employee works 2,087 hours in one year
    Discussion on what is not included currently in cost:
    232. In our fee proposals, we have based direct labor costs on time estimates and staff compensation (salaries and the cost of employer-paid benefits). We recognize, however, that there are different ways to estimate the direct labor cost to process an application. We have estimated direct costs in our proposals on an estimate of the cost of staff that process a particular application, based on the time spent processing that application and the compensation received for that work time. We seek comment on whether direct labor cost estimates based on such an approach are likely to be reliable estimates. As we explained above, our specific fee proposals include first line supervisory direct labor costs. We seek comment, however, on whether direct labor costs should exclude those first line supervisory costs. We also seek comment on whether direct labor costs should include costs for beyond the supervisory level and include second or third supervisory direct labor? As explained above, our proposals include the cost of employer-paid benefits. We seek comment, however, on whether such costs should be included and how they should be estimated? 233. We generally have not proposed to recover non-labor costs in application fees but we seek comment on whether we should include some of them. If commenters contend that some non-labor direct cost should be included in the application fees, they should identify with specificity the non-labor direct costs to be included. For example, each employee that processes applications typically does so using standard desktop hardware issued for that employee’s exclusive use. Many employees that process applications, however, also work on projects in addition to processing applications. Should an estimate of the cost for desktop hardware be developed and included in the application fees along with the direct labor costs? Should an allowance for depreciation expense associated with the Commission’s investment in desktop hardware (reflecting the loss in economic value of such a long-lived asset over time) and a return on the undepreciated portion of that investment (reflecting the opportunity cost of the money invested in desktop hardware) be estimated, and included and if so, how? Should we take into consideration the fact that regulatory fees are an offsetting collection for our annual S&E appropriation in deciding on whether to include non-labor costs in addition to direct labor costs. Is the fact that some of the same entities that pay application fees also pay regulatory fees relevant to the determining the scope of costs to include in the application fees?
  9. W1YW

    W1YW XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    These people have no idea how to do this. They SWAGged a number. In doing so, they will now WASTE thousands of hours of our time having us formulate NPRM 'solutions' for them.

    That's why we need to tell them how to structure the fees, if any. They are clueless.
    N6ATF, N9EAW and K7JEM like this.
  10. KC1DR

    KC1DR Subscriber QRZ Page

    There is a lot of good used equipment available. The club I was in was refusing the equipment because they didn't have any more storage room.
    WN1MB likes this.
  11. AH2AP

    AH2AP XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    While I can understand why some folks think $50 is ok, especially every 10 years, I for one, cannot see how giving someone permission to do something actually costs anything more than what it costs to record it. With data storage getting cheaper and cheaper and database software being completely free and a labor-free automated system, the price couldn't be beyond $50 my entire life!

    Just like asking $50 for a paper copy of my license.. Is that printed with gold ink on gold paper? Did we hire Bill Gates to personally do the printing? wth?!?!?

    I can tell you this, I was a malicious little kid.

    If I had to fork out $50 for permission to be on the air, I wouldn't have bothered to learn more than what I knew from other cb operators.

    I didn't have to be on the air legally.

    I would not have paid.

    You would have another interfering pirate radio operator with just enough knowledge to get away with doing whatever I wanted for an infinite duration of time

    Wasn't this what the FCC was formed to prevent?
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2020
    N6ATF likes this.
  12. WD0BCT

    WD0BCT Ham Member QRZ Page

    This could kill ham radio. Do you think the FCC would miss us?
    W0PV and N6ATF like this.
  13. AH2AP

    AH2AP XML Subscriber QRZ Page


    In a discussion such as this, however, your comment wasn't appropriate, nor was it appreciated.

    Lemme guess.. You were a perfect child and an absolute angel to everyone at all times. Well.. except for the name-calling.. surely that is acceptable. right?
    WZ7U and N6ATF like this.
  14. WN1MB

    WN1MB Ham Member QRZ Page

    Nope. Just a fairly normal and often prankish kid. Rare excursions into malicious behavior were dealt with swiftly and effectively.
  15. AH2AP

    AH2AP XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    While I can appreciate the reference to inflation, it does not account at all whatsoever technology advancements.

    Once upon a time, our kind spent all of our time and effort all day into farming or hunting. Technology has advanced since then.

    Your argument basically is the defense and reasoning to continue to relentlessly tax our subjects for a need we once had but no longer do.

    Forgive me for being so ruffled. For some reason, it struck a hard chord and kicked in a strong defensive emotional reaction in me.
    N6ATF likes this.
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