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FCC issues a Notice of Violation to Solar City for RFI Inteferance

Discussion in 'Amateur Radio News' started by NS6Q, Mar 16, 2017.

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  1. N8UAD

    N8UAD Ham Member QRZ Page

    Seriously?
     
  2. W7CK

    W7CK Ham Member QRZ Page

    Signal Loss, Main Ant. to Radio: 6 dB. Who in their right mind would want to use one of these?
     
  3. W7CK

    W7CK Ham Member QRZ Page

    There are several different solar systems on the market. I'm not referring to manufactures but rather methods by which the systems are used.

    Grid tied systems are very high voltage. The voltage is dropped down to 220 and fed back into the power grid. These systems can be extremely noisy.

    Battery charging systems. These come in 2 primary flavors. The older style uses a PWM charge controller. Typically these charge controllers are less efficient but are fairly quiet in comparison to the much more efficient MPPT charge controllers. The MPPT charge controllers can cause birdies up and down the HF and VHF bands every 20 khz.

    I worked with several MPPT charge controllers from 2 different manufactures and was unable to clean them up to the point where I was satisfied with the results. I eventually gave up and went back to an older PWM charge controller. While the PWM controller is not without fault, it is much better and a lot easier to filter the noise out.

    When a solar system delivers high voltage to a controller, the controllers job is to reduce that voltage down to whatever the operating voltage of that system is. 12v, 24, 48, 120, 220 etc.... They typically use circuitry similar to a switching power supply. The end effect is that they turn on and off the panels at a rate that is required for the switching circuit. In doing so, the wiring from the controllers and the entire panel system becomes this giant antenna which radiates the switching frequency out into the air. If you are effective in filtering the system enough to get rid of the noise, you are likely to degrade the actual efficiency of the controller and prevent it from functioning as it was intended.

    Most people with SDR radios or those that have a high quality active bandscope, can actually SEE the interference caused by these systems. It's quite dramatic.

    There are so many devices that are putting out RFI that I wonder if it is a loosing battle trying to fight these manufactures. The new motors installed in pool pumps, and air conditioning units, washing machines and many other appliances are often spewing out interference.

    The FCC has known about these issues for a long time. They have done absolutely nothing to address them. Now that there are literately millions of them installed, I can't imagine them being able to have much leverage in enforcement. After all, the government is the one who mandated that more efficient motors be built and installed. The federal government also has given incentives for several years now encouraging people to install solar systems. All the while, knowing they produced huge amounts of RFI.
     
  4. W7CK

    W7CK Ham Member QRZ Page

    I don't believe for a minute that the quality of the panel, its diode or lack of a diode has anything at all to do with the noise generated by solar systems. Its the switching system inside the controllers.
     
  5. W7CK

    W7CK Ham Member QRZ Page

    If it is consistent, meaning 24 hours a day, it isn't the solar system. The solar system typically only generates during those times that the sun is shining!
     
  6. AB3EH

    AB3EH Ham Member QRZ Page

    I don't believe you have used this device in a noisy situation. It makes a difference between making a QSO and getting completely drowned in noise. It is the difference between a QSO and walking away due to noise. I have used it. Before that I had S9 or higher level noise and could not hear any signal unless it was S9+10dB or stronger. ANC-4 was able to reduce noise to S1 or S2 level and I started making some QSO's while living in a noisy environment. True their specification says 6dB insertion loss but I would rather live with a 6dB loss than being unable to make any contact due to an intolerable signal to noise ratio. I no longer have that noise problem now but I keep my ANC-4 around. I am ready to insert it when needed.
     
  7. WF9Q

    WF9Q Ham Member QRZ Page

    You need to brush up on critical reading and comprehension skills.
     
    AB3EH likes this.
  8. WF9Q

    WF9Q Ham Member QRZ Page

    I use it all the time, you don't have a clue as to what you are even talking about, you have been watching way too many YouTube videos.
     
    AB3EH likes this.
  9. W7CK

    W7CK Ham Member QRZ Page

    I copied and pasted that directly from their website. I believe it was from ahe link that you posted?
     
  10. AB3EH

    AB3EH Ham Member QRZ Page

    Precisely so. So you do not use an ANC-4 and have not experienced it. If you ever find yourself in a noisy environment where noise of level S9 or greater prevents you from making any QSO then you will see what a difference ANC-4 makes. It will allow you to make successful QSO's by reducing the noise level by about 7 to 9 S points. Try it, you will start to like the 6 dB insertion loss... Sure it is not perfect, sure it may have a 6 dB insertion loss, sure it has a steep learning curve but it is a good product. I am saying this because I own one and love it for what it can do when needed..
     
    WF9Q likes this.
  11. W7CK

    W7CK Ham Member QRZ Page

    Good point and I agree. There are many situations where the noise is outside the ops control and all he or she can do is try their best to mitigate it. In that situation, a 6dB insertion loss isn't much of an issue if it enables the op to get on the air and make contacts. All too often though, folks tend to throw a patch on a problem rather than tracking down the actual culprit and dealing with it directly. Classic point was a situation not too long ago where an op had a horrendous amount of noise and tried his best to filter it out with different devices and with varying degrees of success. In the end it ended up being a new cable modem he had purchased. The modem was replaced, the noise was eliminated and things got back to normal. Had he not traced down the source and opted to try to attack the noise by using a device such as an ANC-4, he would still be dealing with the noise and accepting the 6dB loss to boot!
     
    AB3EH likes this.
  12. K2MRK

    K2MRK Ham Member QRZ Page

    It looks like it is something else - frustrating to have s9 noise level on 20. Have to keep looking
     
    AB3EH likes this.
  13. AB3EH

    AB3EH Ham Member QRZ Page

    Yes, I agree but that works only if the noise is from one or two sources like the one you describe. In 2008 I lived in a big apartment community where we had 400 units. I had stealth antenna but noise prevented me from operating. I tried turning off power to my apartment and it made no difference. I tried going mobile. As my car moved close to the gate of the community. the noise came down and disappeared when I was outside. I went back into the community and drove around. Noise was everywhere. I realized that each apartment had many sources of noise. It was practically impossible to go after to complain or fix a few hundreds of noisy devices located in as many apartments. Someone suggested ANC-4 or a similar unit by MFJ. I opted to buy ANC-4 and I was able to go on air with it. I was happiest to move out from there when my employer moved me again.
     
  14. AB3EH

    AB3EH Ham Member QRZ Page

    Yes, very frustrating indeed. Please share results of your findings.. Thanks
     
  15. WF9Q

    WF9Q Ham Member QRZ Page

    I am assuming you checked it in the early AM dark hours for the noise.

    Next step, trip every breaker in the panel and have some one turn them back on one at a time and wait for things to boot back up before preceding with the next breaker while you listen to the radio. Don't get in a big hurry doing this and take note of strange noises on the radio.
     

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