Exothermic Ground Rod

I'm calling you out as well... quote it within this recent year's NEC. Verbatim please. Then, pdf the page or two and post them. Thanks, Mark.
Make it a teaching moment. Show the marked difference between Majors' site standards and NEC.
I find such darned difficult to believe. Thanks.

 

No I will not do your homework for you or pay your bills. I told you what Article (250), Paragraph (8), and Number (4). 250.8(4). I know my NEC codes as I sat on Code Panel 9 for 2 code cycles, and a Moderator on Mike Holt's Code Forum. I have been in telecom 40 years as a Power Protection Engineer. Exothermic Welds are allowed anywhere at any level above ground. Example how about Sear's Tower in Chicago. Every Floor has a Exothermic Weld to Building Steel as GROUND. Same as in any high rise building.

Never said they did. But I am telling you a Exothermic Weld is allowed anywhere, and if you had really been in telecom would know that. Walk up to any outdoor cell site and look closely. You will see dozens of Exothermic Welds above ground level. At places like all Tower Legs, Gate Post, Hatch Ground Bars, or anything metallic is exothermic welded to the Ground System. Required in specifications. Not my job to do your homework you refuse to do or pay for. FWIW neither Harris or Motorola exist today. Harris is completely gone, and Motorola no longer makes anything for Telcom.

 

And you would allow this?
Oh my god....

 

Well I have 44 years experience ...some of which were consulting for an AHJ and quite frankly have never found a requirement for grounds rods to be totally buried. Most residences do not bury the ground rod completely specifically so that the inspector can verify the connection. I have had clients (utilities, communications companies, and government satellite ground support stations) require grounds rods to be accessible for confirming connections...most of these are in ground test structures...a buried pipe with a cover, but accessible. You may have very well had experience with a particular industry that fully buried ground rods as a requirement. That does not mean it is a NEC or NFPA requirement. It also does not mean that the requirement still exists today. I've seen company requirements come and go with the EE in charge.

I've found you can get a room full of EEs, electricians, and AHJ inspectors and get a plethora of different opinions on many things. However, there will always be some things they agree upon!

 

That is because you are too lazy to do anything yourself. I can cite code in my sleep, I use to write it and still a voting member. You will no tfind anything in the code that prevents a rod from exiting above grade. You have already lost the debate, too many licensed professionals sparkies and engineers around here. That is why you are a Amateur and not a pro. All you got is noise and static. Your just plain lazy.

 

Firstly, did I say they were NOT allowed above ground? That's NOT the point!

The point: How many half-a$$ jobs did you allow with the ground rod and its exothermic weld protruding an inch or inches ABOVE grade? How many in your professional world did you allow? Please tell us! I could not care less for your credentials! State them till you blue in the face.

Second, I'm speaking about ground rods protruding above ground. I suppose they are NOT a hazard, along with the attached and welded cable? Can you read? Good grief!

 

BS.
Last sentence: That's "you're" not "your." So much for your "happy ending."
And "you're" getting on my nerves... with your inflammatory rhetoric tonight.
And believe me, your credentials mean little to me.
Keep cracking your whip and defying the logic of telecom, cellular and comm sites everywhere.
And don't step on or trip over that slightly above grade ground rod and its nasty exothermically welded cable. Please.
I'm glad the majors got it right, to include most tower/bldg contractors (the bldg's I've cared to review).
Good grief...

 

So here you go, KF5.

GROUND RODS:

Typical ground rods are shown in Figure 6-2 (figure omitted). Requirements for ground rods are listed below.

• Ground rods shall be copper-clad steel, solid copper, hot-dipped galvanized steel, or stainless steel. The rods shall have a minimum length of 2.44 m (8 ft.) and minimum diameter of 15.9 cm (0.625 in.), or as otherwise required by NFPA 70, Article 250-52. The actual diameter, length, and number of rods required may vary with site dimensions and/or as determined by an engineering study based on the soil resistivity profile of the site. Refer to “Soil Resistivity Measurements” on page 4-13, NFPA 70, Article 250-52, and NFPA 780, Section 3-13 for more information.
• The method of bonding grounding conductors to ground rods shall be compatible with the types of metals being bonded.
• Ground rods shall be free of paint or other nonconductive coatings (NFPA 70, Article 250-52
and NFPA 780, Section 3-13.1).
• Where practical, ground rods shall be buried below permanent moisture level (NFPA 70, Article250-52).
[Of course, the permanent moisture level varies from place to place, but it's BELOW GRADE!]


I suppose this has changed?


• Ground rods shall not be installed more than 4.9 m (16 ft.) apart (or twice the length of the
rod) and not less than 1.8 m (6 ft.) apart (per NFPA 70, Article 250- 56).

• Ground rods shall be buried to a minimum depth of 0.76 m (30 in.) below finished grade, where possible, or buried below the freeze line, whichever depth is greater.
[Of course, this bullet doesn't reference NFPA... but is a more stringent requirement of R56.]

Reference: Motorola R56, Standards and Guidelines for Communications Sites, 3/1/00, p. 6-7.

EXTERNAL GROUND RING:

The buried external ground ring should encircle the site structures and provides a means of bonding ground rods together and bonding other grounding electrode system components together, improving the overall grounding electrode system.
Requirement for external ground rings are listed below. (See Figure 6-10; refer to NFPA 70, Article 250-50 and NFPA 780, Section 3-13.3 for more information.)
• Building ground ring shall encircle the building or shelter.
• Tower ground ring shall encircle the tower structure whenever possible.
• Building ground ring and tower ground ring shall be bonded together in at least
two points using a 35 mm2 csa (#2 AWG) minimum bare tinned copper conductor.
• Ground rings shall be installed in direct contact with the earth at a depth of 76 cm (30 in.) below the earth’s surface whenever possible, or below the frost line, whichever is deeper (this includes rods).
[I assume this is an R56 requirement and not necessarily an NFPA requirement.]
• Ground rings shall be installed at least 0.9 m (3 ft.) from the building foundation and should be installed beyond the drip line of the roof. It is recommended that the building ground ring and ground rods be positioned 0.6 to 1.8 m (2 to 6 ft.) outside the drip line of the building or structure to ensure that precipitation wets the earth around the ground ring and rods (MIL-HDBK-419A)
• Tower ground rings shall be installed at least 0.9 m (3 ft.) from the tower foundation.
• Ground rings shall consist of bare solid or stranded tinned copper conductor not
smaller than 35 mm2 csa (#2 AWG). For highly lightning prone areas, larger
conductors should be considered.


I suppose this has been changed in recent years as well! I propose the allowance of protruding and grounding conductors lie freely across the site and lawns everywhere!

Reference: Motorola R56, Standards and Guidelines for Communications Sites, 3/1/00, p. 6-15.


This is what I remember and have sites built to in the past 15 years as an engineer, and prior to that, as a contractor.
As a large city's Communication Systems Manager, they are what my City's current sites are built to in Milwaukee, WI.

Look what you did... made me use my computer to search for a copy buried in a folder on my laptop...

 

Small correction to the above: I suppose this has been changed in recent years as well! I propose the allowance of protruding, above grade ground rods and the grounding conductors lie freely across sites and lawns everywhere!

Good grief...

 

Like this?

 

It appears they're working hard to potentially "do it right."

 

Where practical, ground rods shall be buried below permanent moisture level (NFPA 70, Article 250-52).
[Of course, the permanent moisture level varies from place to place, but it's BELOW GRADE! And I suppose this is or was only a "guideline" and not a hard, fast, unbreakable rule.]

Reference: Motorola R56, Standards and Guidelines for Communications Sites, 3/1/00, p. 6-7.

I suppose this was recently changed in NFPA (NEC) as well! That such past common sense is obsolete.
I propose the allowance of protruding, above grade ground rods and their associated grounding conductors. They should lie free across sites and lawns everywhere!
Let's allow the kiddies to step on the rods and and trip over the conductors! Adults even!
That's the ticket!

 

A very important caveat...WHERE PRACTICAL. That opens up a rather large hole I would say.

Hardly a national standard...but for sure a company standard.

So here you go right back at you.

Also be advised that the NEC reference to ground rods pertains to grounding electrodes. NFPA 78 pertains to lightning protection ground systems.

I have experienced quite different AHJ opinion on whether these ground rod systems can be tied together and how. The final decision lies with the AHJ. My MO was to tie them together unless the AHJ would not allow it.
You can always go to court regarding a difference between AHJ requirements and actual Code requirements. But I will say this regarding that...do you want the decision to be made by lawyers?

 

Where practical, ground rods shall be buried below permanent moisture level (NFPA 70, Article 250-52).

Notice the larger text?

We could quibble about this all day.
Then there's the practical and sensible thing to do. Bury the darned stuff -- as recommended.
As I originally recommended before the highfalutin men came along.

 

I don't know where you install your ground rods but suspect they are not where required if anyone has access to them.