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Exothermic Ground Rod

Discussion in 'Amateur Radio News' started by N5HZR, Sep 1, 2018.

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  1. KB8AMZ

    KB8AMZ Ham Member QRZ Page

    James, KD8VT, did this as a demonstration at our, (PCARS) Portage County Amateur Radio Service 2012 Field Day. It was quite informative but something only a rich ham might use. 73 KB8AMZ
     
  2. NL7W

    NL7W Ham Member QRZ Page

    Not sure if anyone noticed, but typically these cad-welded connections are made 12 inches or more below grade. Showing such an installation at-grade is poor practice, and isn't likely up to Code or industry specs.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2018
  3. WD0BCT

    WD0BCT Ham Member QRZ Page

    Cadweld connections to building steel are all above grade. I don't believe grade has anything to do with the acceptability of the exothermic procedure.
     
    N5HZR likes this.
  4. NL7W

    NL7W Ham Member QRZ Page

    This is not the case for ground rods as shown in the thread's initiating video.

    Perhaps that was "only for demonstration purposes." Of course, a video of a cad-weld a foot or more below grade could have been made just as easily. ;)

    This at or above grade cad-weld makes me wonder about other installation errors. I feel sorry for the Red Cross and their building, and could represent a serious hazard if not bonded properly with the building's electrical system. It likely doesn't come close to meeting Code.

    Unfortunately, it's Amateurs at-work... you get what you pay for.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2018
  5. WD0BCT

    WD0BCT Ham Member QRZ Page

    Installation details are provided with any UL certified product. They come with the product. Any UL certified product must be installed per the supplied instructions in order to maintain its listing.
     
    N5HZR likes this.
  6. WA7PRC

    WA7PRC Ham Member QRZ Page

    After I exothermically welded my ground rods using Erico CadWeld products, I went inline skating while wearing my Rollerblade skates. :p:rolleyes:
     
    W1YW and N5HZR like this.
  7. KV6O

    KV6O Ham Member QRZ Page

    Ha! I laughed so hard, I needed a Kleenex™!
     
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  8. NL7W

    NL7W Ham Member QRZ Page

    And UL accomplishes inspections assuring customers of followed NFPA standards and their usually adopted "Code" compliance... and I can assure you that a protruding ground rod doesn't comply.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2018
  9. NL7W

    NL7W Ham Member QRZ Page

    Oh... geesh! :)
     
  10. WA7PRC

    WA7PRC Ham Member QRZ Page

    Yeah. I wouldn't go to a Ford dealer, and ask to buy a Chevrolet. :p
     
  11. N5HZR

    N5HZR Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    FWIW, NEC 250.53(G) states "The electrode shall be installed such that at least 8 ft of length is in contact with the soil. It shall be driven to a depth of not less than 8 ft except that, where rock bottom is encountered, the electrode shall be driven at an oblique angle not to exceed 45 degrees from the vertical or, where rock bottom is encountered at an angle up to 45 degrees, the electrode shall be permitted to be buried in a trench that is at least 30 in. deep."

    This stated dimension is "not less than 8ft", so, for an 8 ft rod, flush with the ground would be the maximum height for the top of the rod. This was an 8' rod dropped in an 8' 6" deep hole (no rocks).

    and...
    http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=65668

    Of course, your local AHJ's may have other requirements, but this is the 'standard' answer.
     
    WA7PRC likes this.
  12. AI5DH

    AI5DH Ham Member

    Wrong

    Refer to NEC 250.8 Connections, Bonding, and Grounding. (4) Exothermic Welding.

    It exceeds all Local, State codes, and in Industries like Telecom, Commercial Broadcast, Electric, Water, Pipe Line, CATV, Cellular and any Critical Communications/Operations Centers is the only method approved or you are FIRED and BANNED from the industry for Incompetence.

    All mechanical connections FAIL. Exothermic Welds NEVER FAIL.
    FWIW Cad Weld is like a Crescent Wrench a Marketing name with no meaning. They are Exothermic Welds and Adjustable Wrenches. Cad Weld is a Brand Name used by Erico
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2018
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  13. WD0BCT

    WD0BCT Ham Member QRZ Page

    Yes the local AHJ can certainly muck things up. One AHJ can differ from another. It is up to the AHJ.

    I was quite often mildly surprised by differences in opinion between inspectors working for the same AHJ! Some of them were actually taken to court. And once the lawyers get ahold of it who knows what the final outcome will be?

    I saw a dispute over area maintained by an HOA get terribly distorted by a legal opinion. The declaration clearly stated that the HOA would maintain all areas not enclosed. For 21 years this was interpreted as "if you put up a fence in your backyard you maintain everything inside the fence". When a drainage problem showed up last year the HOA changed the term "enclosed" to be the" area within an imaginary fence on the property line". I asked how the landscape maintenance people knew where the imaginary fences were? I never did get an answer. But the decision neatly excised the HOA from the drainage problem.
     
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  14. K8MHZ

    K8MHZ Ham Member QRZ Page

    Can you show me that in the NEC? I'll bet you can't because it isn't in there.
     
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  15. NL7W

    NL7W Ham Member QRZ Page

    First off -- I don't have at my disposal a current version of NEC. I refuse to pay for it.

    Please quote it verbatim. Please reference NEC, year and or version, page number, etc. Pdf said page or pages and post here. Thanks.

    In my 35 years of telecom experience, I have NEVER seen a contractor, Motorola, Harris or other major specify or allow ground rod protrusions -- EVER. This from work in Alaska, Washington State, Oregon, California, Montana, Wyoming, Colorado and Wisconsin.

    Then quote and or attach such from wording or drawings from or in Motorola's R56 standard or Harris' similar standard that allows for such -- any recent iteration of those documents.

    And, I understand Majors' site standards docs and specifications are somewhat more stringent that NEC. But, THIS I find quite difficult to believe!

    And yeah... I read that crap above about "exothermic" versus cad-welding... BFD! Such terms are used interchangeably daily. Get down off your pedestal.

    It's back on you. Respectfully...


    Oh... I would NEVER allow such at a radio or cellular site of mine! I never have and never will. Not one; not ever! All rods are below grade; all grounding/bonding cables are below grade until they reach said bldg or tower.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2018

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