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Discussion in 'Ham Radio Discussions' started by N7UO, Apr 14, 2002.

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  1. N7UO

    N7UO Ham Member QRZ Page

    Indeed, I must admit that I chase a "little" DX here and there, and I do join into a pile-up or two. Of late, I have noted a penchant for dumbies to tune up on the DX frequency or begin calling on top of the DX.

    Several threads have made reference to such behavior, but unfortunately, they really haven't spoken to the gravity of the problem.  When the control station sends "up 2", or "up 5" I guess I'm missing something because there are always those stations that insists on continuing to call on the primary frequency.  They are just a tip of the iceberg.  Their fellow idiots that appoint themselves as the frequency monitors must send their "up or uwi or uk or...." since they can't seem to get out "up" twice, without hammering their CW. The ever present: "up urs" in response is equally distressing. Please, I'm not a premadonna, I can cast an expleative here and there, but as an amature, I constantly reassure parents that they can find solace in kids not experiencing the same trash that can be sampled on CB, it does become a hard sell.

    Above all, those 6KW stations that are fortunate to possess that Mark V, "KW" amp, 15 element Yagi up 200', and all of the really fine accompanying equipment are destitute when it comes to purchasing a dummy load rather than tuning on the primary frequency for 5 minutes, before sliding into the pile-up to call.  Yes some may only be 1 kw, but when they hit my station with  +60dB, and can be felt more than heard, especially when they're from across the nation, they've got something going on there that's not exactly in the spirit of amateur radio.

    Another noteworthy problem are those stations that interfere with purpose.  I noted on several recent DXpeditions that several stations have followed the frequency shifts of the DXpedition.  They continue sending ditters, steady carriers, and just noise precluding most from hearing the primary station.  A wise old ham once explained to me that their goal may often be to prevent others from working the new  or rare entity, keeping them ahead in their worked and confirmed totals.  Sounds plausable, but I can't imagine anyone that petty or preclusive.

    Although a relatively new ham, I have seen a change in the behavior of pile-up's over the past several years that is troubling.  How about you?

  2. W8OB

    W8OB Guest

    I agree with you fully, the past several years this type of behavior has
    been increasing. I listened to the p5 operation, and the other day
    a EP station was on the bands. Jamming, ops that can't copy enough
    cw to understand the station is listening up, and most from the states
    here must not be able to speak english very well as the dx op stated
    several times listening up. Dont give up though, soon enough the boys
    with the $14k stations will get bored and find new toys to play with.
    I can't for the life of me see plunking down that kind of bread for a
    massive antenna system and big linear just for a hobby. Over the past
    couple of years I have sold off my expensive toys and found the fun of
    the hobby is back by homebrewing and using basic antenna systems.
    no better feeling that working thru that pile up using 3 watts and a
    homebrew vertical.
  3. W0BKR

    W0BKR Guest

    I have to agree with the previous comments posted.

    To quote:

    "Above all, those 6KW stations that are fortunate to possess that Mark V, "KW" amp, 15 element Yagi up
    200', "...........

    These are the same lids that brag about how they have worked the P5 on 3 bands and chastize individuals who are po'd due to the fact the P5 works 1-4 call areas and doesn't give other areas a "fair" chance at having the opportunity to make everyone standby and allow the DX to work other areas. They jam, tune, talk, whatever, on the DX frequency which to me, should be controlled by the DX station, not the self appointed "cops".

    These individuals, also brag about how many times they work a particular station, even though the "challenge" isn't there when they are operating at power levels outside of the regulated limits (who cares long as I get through, or I am the first through). You see these types on packet spotting the DX with a comment ("worked on 2 calls"), etc. Well, news flash. If you are on the West Coast, running 2KW, the P5 is like working JA. Big deal. Try that from the Midwest with legal limit and prop that is one hour early to being optimum for your area.

    This mindset, attitude, etc., is very prevalent when "rare" DX shows up. I don't understand it, nor figure out why the interest in jamming or being an egotistical ass, unless it is a behavioral problem, which I think is the real issue ("see how great I am"). Kinda the little big man syndrome.

    IN any event, behavior like this isn't welcome on the bands, but it exists. Is there are solution ?
    I'd like to hear it.

    Would love to see the Feds bust some of these morons running outside the allocated power levels. Sure would clean up particular signals I could list by callsign here!
  4. WG7X

    WG7X Platinum Subscriber Platinum Subscriber QRZ Page

    Even though I agree in principal with the sentiments expressed in the original posts and replies, I can't help but wonder why the poster and respondents assume that somone who has worked the DX is running illegal power?

    Is power really the only factor? Really?

    Granted that self-absorbed jerks seem to be attracted to the DX scene it simply does not follow that all of them are running illegal power. This poor me syndrome needs to stop. If you get beat out to the DX many factors are at work, not just how much power the other fellow is running.

    I have seen this same complaint many times, usually followed by an excuse as to why the complainer could not work the DX. Fellows, I live on the west coast, and I have not even heard the P5, much less worked him. Should I complain because my antenna is not high enough? Mabye I should complain because I live on a hillside and the P5 is blocked. Should I complain because I have a job and can't stay home all day waiting for the DX to show?

    Well, of course the answer to all the above is no, I should not complain. As an adult I have finally figured out that life is not fair, nor should I expect it to be. So, iinstead of complaining about things that I have no control over I try to be patient and eventually I might work the DX.

    Even if I never work the P5, life still continues on, and so do I.

    The jerks will always be there, and some of them are no doubt running too much power. So what?

    Before you ask, I have wire antennas and a nice rig. Yes, I do have an amp, which will do about one kilowatt. Have I been beaten to the DX? You bet! Sometimes by mobiles and QRP stations too! Having an amp is no gaurantee to DX success. I prefer to believe that operator skill is more important, all other things being equal.

    But, the jerks will always be with us, unless you can figure out a way to change human nature.

    Good luck with that!

    73 Gary WG7X
  5. W0BKR

    W0BKR Guest

    As to "illegal" power, I know of some individuals that have homebrew amps and commercial amps capable of operating outside of "legal limits" and have boasted same. Plus, a quick look on the spectrum analyzer will show these lids wider then the butt of an elephant.

    But to be honest, there are certain areas that do get "special" attention with DX, regardless of being warranted or not. Some of which I think is poor operator skill. Frankly, I would prefer operators to work pileups based upon the prop and appropriate amount of stations to work from an area, if that is the preferred method.

    Whatever, I just wish many of those DX'ers would show some respect on the bands for others. Many do, some however don't.....
  6. NN6EE

    NN6EE Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    Well BOYZ,

    I've been on a long time myself on Amateur Radio, and as much as I enjoy getting into a pileup just like alot of other guys do, the FUN of the HUNT is almost gone because of the aformentioned RADIO-COPS and LIDS!!! It really never ceases to AMAZE me how either INCONSIDERATE or STUPID, or BOTH, some of these guys really are!!!

    But one thing I will say, with every DX stn I get, and especially the RARE ONES, I've really worked for THEM!!! One good example of that would be the A52A Operation a couple of years ago, Christ, I could barely hear those guys in BHUTAN from the start, and working that particular AREA here on the West Coast is a BUGGER as it is, so with a little operator expertise and A LOT OF LUCK WE DID IT!!! But again I felt like I'd accomplished a major feat because of all the adversity we had to go through to WORK'EM!!! [​IMG]

    73 es DX,

  7. WG7X

    WG7X Platinum Subscriber Platinum Subscriber QRZ Page

    Jim, W6IBD

    DX Is!


    Gary, WG7X
  8. N4SL

    N4SL Ham Member QRZ Page

    This whole "they are loud so they must be running illegal power" thing is confusing to me.

    How loud are YOU to THEM? Do you know? Nope, you ain't working 'em.

    Guess what, going from 1KW to 4KW will only raise your signal a Single S unit (6dB). Going from legal limit to 2500W (the max rating of most of these high-end commercial monster amps like Alpha 99) only gets you 2.2dB (.37 S-units). This will make a difference only when signals are in the mud.

    The boys you hear have superior antenna systems, most of them have stuff few can afford or have room to install... and lots of them are hearing YOU at S9+40dB too.

    Now, maybe these boys are running illegal power, I dunno, but go see their websites and LOOK at those freakin' antennas, dang.

    I've got aluminum-envy and I think you do, too.

    73, Steve N4SL
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