D-STAR illegal in France

Discussion in 'Amateur Radio News' started by G4TUT, Jun 29, 2010.

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  1. SV9OFO

    SV9OFO Ham Member QRZ Page

    VK5ZEA

    to VK5ZEA:


    Sorry to dissapoint you but you have hit the wrong thread. Here, talking is focused on REAL matters of why or why not of D* and other proprietary modes like PActorIII. (ok, ok, mostly why not, but pse read it from the beggining to find that noone (until now maybe, hi hi (!)) jumped at anyone over anything.

    Just plain civilised discussion. This thread has been actually credited by people for the lack of flaming.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2010
  2. VK5LN

    VK5LN Ham Member QRZ Page

    I'm the first to admit the problems with D-Star, I am and have been publicly critical of the crap radios that Icom put into their repeater modules... which is why I built my own 2m D-Star repeater using my own radios. The first thing I tell anyone wanting to set up a D-Star repeater is to expect to pay extra to bring the RF performance up to scratch.
    The way Icom D-Star radios work is complicated and using them efficiently on D-Star can be very difficult... especially when mobile.
    I also don't like the proprietary nature of the codec used, but I know why it was chosen and I can live with it until another solution comes along.
    I am open to all comments about D-Star, good, indifferent and bad... I just don't like the personal attacks... from outside and within the D-Star community.

    I also realize that this is off topic for this thread and I do apologize for that. I will go back to listening mode.

    Michael
    VK5ZEA
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2010
  3. EI4GMB

    EI4GMB Ham Member QRZ Page

    Michael VK5ZEA

    Michael,
    Most people including me have not sought to get personal on the D-Star Debate.That's what it is, merely a debate.You like many others have made some valid and interesting points and you are entitled to your opinion. Thank you for your replies and I wish you the best of luck with your D-Star operating. I will now also return to listening mode.
    Kind Regards
    Fred EI4GMB
     
  4. G4ILO

    G4ILO Ham Member QRZ Page

    There have always been black box operators in the hobby. Lots of people are still building things. They are called QRPers. They can do it because they use simple analog modes or CW for which the construction of low power transmitters and receivers is within the capabilities of just about any amateur who chooses to do so.

    I take my hat off to you for constructing your own D-Star repeater. The level of knowledge required is beyond that of most amateurs, beyond even those who would build their own AM and CW rigs back in the 1950s and 60s from magazine articles.

    One of the things I have against a development such as D-Star is that its complexity makes it impossible for most of us to build our own equipment to use with it. I don't even see kits or published constructional projects for gear to use with it. So D-Star makes it likely that even more hams in the future will be black box operators because the modes you can use with the radios most of us are able to build will increasingly be considered obsolete.

    I'm afraid D-Star is destroying the idea of ham radio as a way to learn about and experiment with radio, just to gain a technically sophisticated communications facility that a hobby arguably doesn't need. The fact that a small number of people such as yourself have the expertise to experiment with it doesn't justify the harm it is doing to the hobby as a whole by fostering the idea that you need a box packed with digital electronics and a complex network infrastructure in order to communicate.
     
  5. KC2UGV

    KC2UGV Ham Member QRZ Page

    You don't see kits, because the DV dongle is the closest you can get to a kit, without an open vocoder.

    One-off kitting of a D-star project would be price prohibitive, with the single linchpin chip being $20 a pop. Not too mention easily destroyed (It's SMT) so replacements are pricey. Not like a 555 chip...

    Add in the other components, and BAM! Just not worth making a kit over.
     
  6. NP3FS

    NP3FS Ham Member QRZ Page

    D-Star?

    D-Star = Dominance - Strategy to avert rejection :)
     
  7. F8FFP

    F8FFP Ham Member QRZ Page

    I am delighted to see that the petition is available for l 'Europe.
    I encourage you in signed and make it go through around you.

    Here have am fed up of this regulation there.
     
  8. WB2MIC

    WB2MIC Ham Member QRZ Page

    Some Thoughts on DSTAR

    I admit I git suckered into buying an IC92AD, hotspot board, etc. 6 weeks later I sold all of it and a weight was lifted off my shoulders. Here's why.

    While the proponents of DSTAR attempt to keep the "CB" ops off the mode, it is DSTAR itself that will be the CBification of amateur radio. Is it not elitism with a proprietary pecuniary twist not in the nature of amateur that DSTAR is leading us into? I have heard more than a few DSTAR hams say they wanted to keep the mode safe from certain factions of hams. Not to worry. The cost of DSTAR radios almost guarantees this.

    Finally, someone has figured out a way to exact an annual fee for hams to use a particular mode. What a wonderful metamorphosis of the ham radio spirit? Consider that CBers and GMRS radio operators technologically are also able to create Internet-based DSTAR-like networks. Seems to me that when a ham radio mode depends upon the Internet to communicate it is no longer ham radio. When it depends upon a corporate-based for-profit with a monthly ISP fee delivery system during emergencies it is suicidal.

    I've given this a lot of thought now. The error I made was ignoring the feeling in my gut early on that there was something very wrong with entire idea. DSTAR is not the future of amateur radio. It may well be, the beginning of the end of amateur radio. It is technological progress but only in its hardware and perhaps software. However, any system that relies upon keeping an external computer on 24/7 to communicate has no need for a radio. Thus, the popularity of a dongle. We have now reached a point where we can play ham radio and play with our dongle all at the same time.
     
  9. KJ4RHP

    KJ4RHP Ham Member QRZ Page

    Was it ICOM or the Japanese Amateur Radio League that chose the codec for D-Star? I thought is odd (and bad) that they would chose a proprietary codec but I don't have a festering hatred for D-Star because of it. It would be nice if an open standards digital mode was adopted and supported by all the big radio manufacturers.

    I have a couple of 2820H's and would be happy to pull out the D-Star circuit board to swap in something that everyone likes. I hope they make a patch to convert my HT.

    I agree that too many digital modes is hazardous to the amateur radio spirit. Tuning across a band and not being able to hear what's going on is not good. If you only need to check a couple of modes then that's ok but not too many.

    My big problem with D-Star is that it is a pain to use. The user interface on the radio for selecting gateway or no gateway and setting the receiving user's callsign is too cumbersome. If I did it while driving I would surely crash.

    The ability for the gateway to find you while traveling is pretty cool and practical.
     
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