Discussion in 'Ham Radio Discussions' started by WR3V, Oct 21, 2017.
The ARRL is not taking people's money and not sending them QST. That is the difference.
They're just taking people's money and not providing some of the other services that they claim to provide to the ham community, while they simultaneously push legislation that actually hurts some of their members. Yeah, I'm still not seeing the difference.
Whether the service not provided is a magazine or something else, critiquing either organization for their failing is a valid criticism. If nobody points out such things, they will never improve.
Specifically what service or services are you alleging that the League failed to provide? When did it happen? Was it to you personally, others?
You say you are critiquing, not bashing. Then what is your complaint? What is your critique? What didn’t they do an when didn’t they do it?
You provide no specific details. Just vague accusations. And yes, I read what you said in the now closed ARRL Membership thread, but that lacked specifics as well.
If you are going to compare the alleged failure of the League, or League staff, or League HQ, to act on something... to the known and documented failure of the publisher of CQ to provide magazines under the implied contract of a subscription... then you need to provide specifics.
Otherwise, as vague undocumented and unsupported accusations, it is bashing.
Actually, if you scroll up, you will see that I have provided specific examples of what I consider to be substantial departures between what the League says they do and what they actually do. Others have provided even more examples. And I provided even more details in the other thread, titled "ARRL membership" or similar where you also said I was hijacking the thread by providing those details. And those were no different than any of the other threads in which I documented what I saw as material failures of League leadership to do the things they say they do. In some cases, I documented how they were doing the opposite of what they claimed.
It's only vague to you because you aren't reading. I can't help you with that. Other people in these threads have had disagreements with me, but at least they discussed the subjects and details with me, rather than slapping an unqualified label on what I said without even reading it.
You know, I didn't comment in that thread or this one any differently than any number of other commenters, nor any differently than when I raised these issues in other threads previously. And the issues I raised in recent threads were certainly "going with the flow of traffic," so to speak. Even in the recent ARRL thread, I couldn't figure out why you were singling me out for particular contempt, when others had very similar issues with the League, members and non-members alike. Interestingly, that thread was closed immediately after you hammered away at me in similar fashion for doing what is normal for other participants in a conversation of this subject.
Maybe that should tell you something.
But since you are singling me out, obviously for reasons other than what you say since you aren't treating other people this way, I can only assume that you have some other beef with me that has nothing to do with "bashing" anybody. Even if I cared what you think of me, there's nothing I can do to correct whatever it is that offends you so much if you won't even be honest about what that is. So not only do I not care what you think, I can't care what you think because it is pointless and unproductive to try to reach any common ground with such pretense.
So if you care so much about something specific I have written, you need to take it to somebody else who might care, because I certainly don't. To that end, my suggestion is that you click the "Report" button under whatever post(s) offend you so deeply, and tell your story to the mods. Here, let me illustrate:
Figure 1: How to Report KK5JY's Offensive Posts
If they have an issue with something I have written, I'll gladly listen to what they have to say. But talking to you is pointless, because I keep explaining myself, only to read replies from you complaining that I didn't explain myself.
That's a matter of opinion (yours). OTOH, it is a fact that CQ is not delivering its products as agreed to.
Oh, I don't doubt that CQ has problems. Big problems. I didn't mean to even call that into question. Not delivering a periodical to paying customers is bad, especially if it is your main/only revenue-generating product. And the number of threads devoted to this subject are evidence that the incidents are not isolated. The question has been asked a couple of times whether CQ has given any explanation as to the reason for the ongoing snafus, and it doesn't sound like anybody has gotten a satisfactory answer yet (that I remember seeing, anyway).
So I don't blame the OP a bit for his indignation.
The additional point that I am trying to make is that when people show similar concern over other groups, whether they claim to be "for profit" or "non-profit", and whether those groups' "products" are a magazine or something else, none of that matters -- if people pay money for goods or services, and don't receive them, those concerns are just as valid as the OP whose mailing address CQ can't seem to find. And if people try to say that the concerns in one instance are valid, but in the other instance are "just bashing" or "invalid" or "just your opinion" or whatever terminology they want to use, that's a double-standard.
People are making plenty of room for those with missing CQ issues to say so in the fourms. And that's perfectly appropriate. (It makes me glad that I subscribed digitally.)
Likewise, people need to make plenty of room for those who feel the League has let them down on major issues to say so, without being labeled, dismissed and angrily ridiculed.
Similarly, people need to make room for those who choose to support either group, despite their flaws, for reasons that are valid to them -- and without being labeled, dismissed, and angrily ridiculed.
There are a lot of people who don't like it that I (and others) criticize the League. And that's fine. I don't need everybody to like everything I write, because that's not why I write things down. But the growing list of things that I find unacceptable of the League (to whom I have paid decades of dues) are no less valid than the OP's complaint, just because it's "the League," or because the problems aren't a periodical. And people just need to make space for my (and others') concerns just like they do for the OP (and the oodles of others like him).
Nothing wrong with criticizing the League. They are not sacrosanct. But why not start a thread to do it rather than using this one, which is on a totally different subject?
When I have previously contributed to those discussions, they were (mostly) in threads that were about the League, or about one of the issues where I (and others) believe that the League was not fulfilling its stated mission (RFI, CC&R, LoTW, etc.). In the most recent case (as described above) the actual title of the thread was about League membership, and the OP about questioning the value of renewing vs. not.
But that didn't stop people from accusing me of hijacking that thread, making things up, etc. So when people over here started a very similar discussion about CQ magazine, for reasons that (to me) were not dissimilar to the prior League-titled threads, I concluded that it was a valid question to ask people in this thread who were criticizing CQ (some of whom were trying to dismiss me in the League thread(s) for doing nothing different over there), why they were okay with a double-standard? You may think it was off-topic, and you would not be alone, but I found that question to be very on-topic, considering circumstances, content, and participants.
And to be clear, I didn't come to the CQ thread to criticize the League. My comments in this thread are trying to figure out why people who feel free to criticize CQ in a CQ thread are so against me having critical things to say about the League in a League-related thread. Interestingly, no one has yet attempted to answer that question.
Ok, good points. So, what arrl office, or appointments, are you holding, or campaigning for? I am a member and can vote for you.
I'd be the last one to criticize you for making your comments about the League in an ARRL thread, and I would criticize people for taking issue with you on that. But this is not an ARRL thread. Sometimes it's best to take the high road.