First off I agree with every one hear on what they told you. You have to copy copy copy , it will SINK in some day .IT TAKES TIME do not listen to the guy that said it took him 2 days. That was him not me or you . Every one is different in time frame. My 2 cents. Now I have a question for AL7N and any one else . I understand copy of code in cursive and AGREE with that 100% Fact is the Maritime Service required 25 wpm copy - The USCG was 22 wpm- at least one US Government job I know of was 25 wpm copy With a Type Writer . A amateur extra class 20 wpm. Every one learns morse at a different rate. I learned off a Ameco 45 record in the 70's at 5 wpm then copied W1AW and amateur radio ops. I did the tape thing in the car ect. .. I slept with code tapes and head phones on some times. High speed code tape higher than 25 wpm. The best copy hands down was when I listened to and copied NMN and WCC . I still have a old tape I play in the car of a WCC op working ships. Wow I wish I could get my hands on more weather and news broadcast in morse. Now then this is what I asking or posing to AL7N or any one else. Fact is we are using contest loggers for contest , many hams sending with keyboard .DXpeditions using computers. Would it not be good for some one learning to copy to start with Just Learn Morse Code and Learn to copy code at the same time by typing it ??? Regardless Of my code speed I use LCWO- RufzXP- JLMC- Morse Runner and CW Freak . When I go into program, Learn CW Online I copy call signs and word training mostly. I try and copy the word fully Type it ( building a Buffer ) then type it in the box. The act of copy then typing is more difficult for me. I get lost had high speeds. I am doing this for reasons, nothing to do with this hear. No# 2 I am having a local ham copy 2 charters at a time as he is learning code He is typing it . I have him running the charters at 25 wpm and he is not to progress till 90% . Question do you think I have him using to high speed ?? - You see if he learns at the character speed he plans to copy code at . There is no barrier or hours of copy like I did to increase copy . Has any on this board used this concept to learn morse ???? This is all I think applying to this thread > I do not want to high Jack it. I have been reading about the Morse Machine , and tried it. Some people think it is bad practice rubbish and should not be used in learning cw. That being learn 2 charters at one time and 90% move on to next lesson . Any input ? The ham I have been trying to help says this-- He can not copy cursive any faster than typing - Makes no difference in his progress from what he can tell. AL7N your input or any one else ..