Cable internet vs DSL

Discussion in 'Computers, Hardware, and Operating Systems' started by K4KYV, Apr 8, 2007.

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  1. K5GHS

    K5GHS Ham Member QRZ Page

    The other issue that CAN present itself with cable (depending on your area) is that if you get a lot of people hooked into your node, eventually you won't see the peak speed during peak hours. Though supposedly some companies have imposed caps on 'heavy users' to bring the speed back up, until people hit these caps, they can be downloading-and bringing everyone else's shared speed down.

    DSL, on the other hand, will limit to whatever the cap speed is. So you usually don't get the slowdowns at 7pm. People can heavily download all they like-it will just stop at the stated speed.

    People like cable because it will go above the speed when its available. But when it first came out, that would often degrade others.

    Take a look at the forums at Broadband reports and check out your company as well as the one you're thinking about switching to. You may find out they cap, or not.

    Of course, I don't worry about caps as I'm not a bit torrent user or a heavy gamer, but you have to be careful because that doesn't mean other people on your same node may do so. If they cap your speed will probably be fine. If they don't, then you may have issues with cable, if they haven't instituted bandwidth capping. Most people hate it if they are heavy downloaders. But if you aren't, a capping policy means there won't be one person always using the bandwidth. Caps can be good or bad depending on what you actually do on the internet.

    I've always liked DSL because the speed is always there, no matter what. It sometimes will spike a little higher, but if its a busy time, everyone gets capped out at the same speed so no one user is taking up the line. They also tend to add bandwidth a lot quicker. Cable has more local nodes, so you're likely sharing with less people, but usually the only solution to fix a overloaded node issue is to split the node users in half. That works if the abusive user winds up on the half you're not on.

    Most people I know use cable without issues, though.

    One other thing I like about DSL now (AT&T) is they now have a no-contract option. Most cable deals I have seen still require a one year commitment. So far, I have a feeling that may change.

    But check out that website. You can speed test and do all kinds of stuff. Often they can tell if an area is having a problem by the speed tests before the provider even knows.
     
  2. N2IZE

    N2IZE Ham Member QRZ Page

    In my neighborhood Verizon runs fiber optic clable right to the house through which they run both your phone and Internet connection. They market it as FIOS. I installed it this past fall and I have been quite satisfied. It's been fast and thus far reliable with no downtime (knock on wood). Speeds are pretty darned fast 10 - 20 mbps down and 5 mbps up depending on the package. Unfortunately it isn't available everywhere. I was lucky. If I were to move it would be hit or miss as to whether or not it would be available. However, they have been expanding.
     
  3. N2IZE

    N2IZE Ham Member QRZ Page

    I've had it installed here. Works fine. Extremely fast. Costs a bit more than DSL but worth it IMHO.
     
  4. N6YG

    N6YG Ham Member QRZ Page

    Let see Hmmm No you are wrong.. I can perform this attack easier today then 10 years ago. One of the things that makes it easier is all the high speed wireless access points. So few of them are secured and even when they are secured most are using such simple passwords that most of the time it's trivial.

    I have been working with computers since I was 13. When I retired my Capt's hat 10 years ago I opened up a network security firm. Network security is my job, among other things we specialize in network intrusion audits & detection. What this means is I get paid to hack into corporate intranets. There isn't a day that goes by where I don't get to shame some Microsoft certified network engineer by cracking their system an downloading customers credit card information. I really enjoy my job! I love the looks on a CEO's face when I hand them a CD with all his corporate and customer financial records on it. With more and more company's switching to Microsoft server products cracking network security has become easier then ever. There was a time when it was challenging. As Microsoft's operating systems become more bloated they become easier to crack. I'm at the point of being able to crack a Microsoft server in about 10 min. The quickest I have been able to crack one is 4 min the longest is about 20. Cable networks are trivial to crack. The only saving grace is so few Americans today are network savvy. What this means is most attacks come from outside the country. Attacking a cable subscriber from the Internet is just as complex or easy as a DSL customer. Where Cable costumers suffer is from local attacks. I can drive down any street in a neighborhood that offers cable Internet and be logged in watching network traffic in minutes!


    By the way If you cant get fiber, I vote for DSL.
     
  5. K5GHS

    K5GHS Ham Member QRZ Page

    The "No TV-No internet" policy, at least for Comcast here, is an additonal $8 a month for internet only. So basically, you pay them $8 for nothing, or you can get "basic basic" for $14ish.

    I don't know any people without the TV part, but it IS still an option.

    The highest tier DSL (6M/1.5M) around here on the T is $34.99 a month plus other "fees, taxes, etc," so its closer to $40. Comcast's lowest tier is $45 (well, 29 for 3 months then 49 thereafter).

    I'm on the second level right now, if it works well, I may move it up a notch. The funny thing was, you could order the first 2 levels online, but if you wanted the faster ones, you had to call. I'm thinking they send someone to test, or they want someone in the office to verify you're close enough. I go to the website now and I could upgrade it to the highest level with a few clicks....
     
  6. KA8NCR

    KA8NCR Ham Member QRZ Page

    Unsecured wireless networks are a different problem than being able to monitor your neighbors connectivity through the cable modem. Let's try to keep this on topic; the original problem described the problems of a shared ethernet segment, not sniffing your neighbors wireless connection.

    WPA and WPA2 are not trivial because the key roll is usually set to about 3600 seconds. By the time you brute-force your way into decrypting anything, the key has rolled again. And that password? Only starts the temporal key exchange and is never used again.

    As I said in my previous post, the security on the client side is usually very poor and that's why residential users are targets.

    My network resides at irlp.rudn.com. I await your post on QRZ the contents of the "dropbox" directory. There's two VPN services running, ssh, smtp and of course the IRLP system. Or if you want to drive by my QTH, the Airport Extreme is dutifully sending out "Airport" as its SSID. Have at it.

    Extra bonus points if you can tell me the cute LPR spool name for the Brother laser printer.
     
  7. N6YG

    N6YG Ham Member QRZ Page

    You still don't understand... once you find an unsecured wireless network connected to a Cable provider you will have access to all the computers on that node, not just the computer attached to the wireless system..

    True Cable is a type of pseudo switched network. But only switched between different distributions blocks. All the computers connected to the same distribution block are visible to all the other computers on the same distributions box. Mind you there are measures taken in the Cable modems themselves to prevent the average user from snooping. Most of the time you can not just click network neighborhood and see your neighbors computer.

    True WPA and WPA2 are far more robust then WEP, unfortunately to many people use simple passphrase's. When and if EVERYONE starts using WPA and more robust passwords then attacks such as the one I described will become much more difficult.

    Personally we have setup an in house radius server and hotspot. This gives us the ability to let friends and guests log into the network and gain access to the Internet without compromising the network by disclosing the WPA passphrase. Of course for added security the wireless system is firewalled from the local intranet.

    Don't fool yourself, we charge between $250 and $500 an hour for standard network audits, your not going to get a free audit. Besides there are many legal issues to contend with. I just can't go off and start hacking into someones system. How do I know you have the authority to authorize an audit on that system. There are wavers and contracts that need to be read and signed. Your ISP needs to be informed of the the date and time and the nature of work to be performed. Your ISP must also consent in writing too the work being performed.

    Now if you are interested in a network security audit we can surly accommodate you. Even though this is my company I don't normally deal with sales or the legal aspects, that's what attorneys and sales staff are for. Never the less I will do my best to describe the process for you.

    Here is the basic information.
    We require a $250 setup fee and the first hour in advance. Billing is 1 hour minimum with additional time billed in 1/2 hour increments. If you send me a private message with your physical address. I will have my girl send off the contracts and wavers. Simply sign them and return them with a company check for $750. We will contact your ISP for you. After your ISP has returned the necessary consent form's we can schedule your audit. Keep in mind this is our busy time of year. There is approximately a 90 day waiting list. If you have an emergency situation and need an immediate audit we can bump you to the top of the list but there is an additional fee and hourly rates are higher for emergency service. If you would like a WIFI security audit the fee's are the same plus travel expenses and travel time billed at $150 an hour.

    Since it sounds like you are running a mac system. A network audit is probably not necessary. Further more it would most likely be cost prohibitive as Mac systems are much more robust and the time needed to fully test them is substantially higher then Microsoft server products.

    73
    KF6PYF
     
  8. N6YG

    N6YG Ham Member QRZ Page

    I hope you have patched your Airport extreme ! As this was still an unpatched vulnerability I did not want to say anything yesterday but there is a exploitable vulnerability "Ipv6" in the Airport extreme 802.11n* that would have allowed me to see files on your system. Talk about irony, Apple just released a patch for it today.. As you can see I might just have been able to read your files or More...

    You better patch your wireless access point !

    Link
     
  9. KA8NCR

    KA8NCR Ham Member QRZ Page

    No, I do understand; completely. At this point, it doesn't matter WHERE you are on the internet, the target client machine is unprotected. Ergo, it has NOTHING to do with the network infrastructure. Again, the OP said that cable networks were insecure because they were on a shared ethernet segment and that isn't the case. Period.

    You see them not because cable network is insecure, you see them because they do not have any form of firewall. Difference is that isn't a fault of the network infrastructure, it's the fault of the client.

    [banging head on desk]

    Okay, run tcpdump or go get Ethereal, sniff your cable modem and let me know what you find.

    Darn.


    Yeah, I wouldn't want you being confused with all the Russian kids trying to get into my network on a daily basis.

    I really don't need any surly accommodations; I have a wife.

    Best 73 and good luck in the contest.
     
  10. KA8NCR

    KA8NCR Ham Member QRZ Page

    And your going to talk to it IPV6, how?

    Yes, that'll need to get fixed at some point.
     
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