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c w id idea ???

Discussion in 'Ham Radio Discussions' started by KD4AMG, Jun 4, 2004.

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  1. KD4AMG

    KD4AMG Ham Member QRZ Page

    Ok let us use a hypothetical situation... we are on the radio, and communicating using MORSE CODE.

    Time to I.D. your station

    Here is the question: Is it legal when identifying YOUR station s call sign to SPELL out the district number instead of using the morse code number i.d for that number ?

    as an example, using my own call sign

    ai4ep.....is it legal to SPELL out the letters FOUR than to use the morse code I d of four ?

    I know this would take more time / effort, but would it be LEGAL ?

    { no, Glen I am NOT trying to start a code/no code debate, just a simple question ...however...if you THINK even in a small way that I am, or that it COULD turn into one, please delete it a s a p }

    but back to the basic question, is it legal to I D your station, by spelling out the NUMBER of your call sign with morse code letters rather than the numberic version which is far simplier ?

    btw: this is NOT an original idea, heard others questioning the legality of it on 3.965 around 6;20 local time this evening just before the net at 6;30 p.m. So here I am asking you folks for facts / opinion on this simple matter.

    ---ai4ep---
     
  2. WA2ZDY

    WA2ZDY Guest

    No, you must identify your station by its assigned callsign, which in your case is AI4EP, not AIFOUREP.

    As a somewhat related side note, when the tenth call district was created after WW2, hams with newfangles callsigns (those with a Ø in it) used to sign with the LONG dash of the American Morse code for the Ø. FCC found it necessary to spell out that that was not legal, that the callsign was a Ø and that Ø was to be sent using International Morse - that for which we are examined as to our proficiency.
     
  3. KD4AMG

    KD4AMG Ham Member QRZ Page

    [​IMG] ok thank you
     
  4. W5HTW

    W5HTW Ham Member QRZ Page

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (WA2ZDY @ June 03 2004,17:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">No, you must identify your station by its assigned callsign, which in your case is AI4EP, not AIFOUREP.

    As a somewhat related side note, when the tenth call district was created after WW2, hams with newfangles callsigns (those with a Ø in it) used to sign with the LONG dash of the American Morse code for the Ø. FCC found it necessary to spell out that that was not legal, that the callsign was a Ø and that Ø was to be sent using International Morse - that for which we are examined as to our proficiency.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    That also applies (at least to this OT) to voice operation in which &quot;legal ID&quot; is not phonetics, but the call sign as appears on the license. It can, though, be supplemented with standard phonetics if they are deemed necessary for clarification.

    Yeah, I agree - spelling out the numbers in the call sign do not fit the definition of &quot;legal ID.&quot; I have frequently spelled out my entire call sign, on CW, using phonetics, to help a DX station get a letter he is missing. But not in lieu of the legal ID, just as an adjunct to help - a supplement.

    Of course, as ham radio changes, the rules don't always keep up with it!

    Enjoy

    Ed
     
  5. AC4BB

    AC4BB Ham Member QRZ Page

    Why, on earth would anyone want to go to all the trouble to spell&quot;Four&quot; when you can simply send the number 4.? ...._
     
  6. K6UEY

    K6UEY Ham Member QRZ Page

    AC4BB,
    Maybe it is a situation where he didn't bother to learn any of the numbers, only the letters in code,after all if he didn't intend to use the numbers why bother to learn them ?? After all this is the NEW 21st Century!!!   [​IMG]
     
  7. WA2ZDY

    WA2ZDY Guest

    Yeah Ed, KE4MEJ got ya on that one. But MEJ, your copy of Part 97 is also old - like mine was.

    Once upon a time, MEJ would have been correct. One could ID using phonetics, but they had to be - as MEJ's quote indicates - &quot;standard&quot; phonetics. That is to say, Alpha, bravo, charlie, etc.

    A couple years ago, the word &quot;standard&quot; disappeared from 97.119(b)(2). It now says: &quot;2) By a phone emission in the English language. Use of a phonetic
    alphabet as an aid for correct station identification is encouraged;&quot; So one could interpret that to mean &quot;use any old words&quot; to ID.

    &quot;We Angered Two Zebras Down Yonder.&quot;

    Doesn't quite work, huh? But it's the best I could come up with without the second letter &quot;A&quot; being called ARE (letter R?) or ATE (number 8?)

    Seriously though, the way 97.119(b)(2) is written, that would be legal. Sad, huh?

    So Ed, yes, IDing phonetically only has always been legal. Just that now the phonetics can be any old funny words you can dream up. Back to CW . . .

    Down the tubes,
    Down the tubes,
    Ham radio is going away
    Down the tubes . . .
     
  8. N8CPA

    N8CPA Ham Member QRZ Page

    Why would I want to sign,

    -. --- ...- . -- -... . .-.
    . .. --. .... -
    -.-. .... .- .-. .-.. .. .
    .--. .- .--. .-
    .- .-.. .--. .... .- ?

    If not illegal, it's certainly ludicrous, time consuming, and annoying. That said, I expect that once no code HF becomes a reality, some older phone operators will probably make it a point to identify only in CW on HF phone bands. Under current rules, that would be a legal, except on 60M.
     
  9. W6EZ

    W6EZ Ham Member QRZ Page

    97.119(b)(2)
    &quot;By a phone emission in the English language. Use of a standard phonetic alphabet as an aid for correct station
    identification is encouraged;&quot;

    So, if a guy's call sign ends with FFF
    he could say &quot;fox fox fox&quot;
    or, &quot;four fox feathers&quot;
    or, &quot;fountains flow freely&quot;

    but if he were to insist on using &quot;triple F&quot;
    he would be illegal?

    That's the way I read it.
     
  10. AC4BB

    AC4BB Ham Member QRZ Page

    Considering &quot;This is the 21st Century&quot; as you say at least I hope it is. Then the CW must still be pretty useful because most all the airports even the small ones. Still have VOR's in Cw and all the local public service band stations still I'D in CW so, they must be the backward ones I guess. Bryan, AC4BB
     
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