Buyer has radio for month, now wants money back?

Discussion in 'Stolen Radios, Scams and Rip-Offs' started by N7PHX, Nov 11, 2015.

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  1. WW1SS

    WW1SS Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    PayPal did it to me for $1200. Sent out a perfectly working rig and 2 weeks later guy said it had no output and wanted his money back. He filed a claim with paypal and they gave him his $$$ back. I called my bank and had them stop payment on ANY and all Paypal transactions. I closed account and opened another. Paypal lost out and not me. I have not seen the radio either. Told them they would get paid when I got my merchandise back.
     
    KE4RWS likes this.
  2. N8ZJ

    N8ZJ Ham Member QRZ Page

    Yes, Paypal still gives the buyer protection because the item still has to be as described so they can just say some other kind of problem like a scratch(example).. Imo if you sell something put a "warranty void sticker on the equipment. Take a video of it working and pictures. So if paypal ever comes after you like this you have proof that the other person destroyed or broke the radio or whatever equipment you sold. When the buyer sends it back to you take pics and videos showing what said buyer did to the radio and then paypal will usually side with you and send the equipment back on buyers dime and you keep your $. Just make sure you fully document everything you sell.
     
  3. KE4RWS

    KE4RWS Ham Member QRZ Page

    Just how does PayPal know the buyer actually shipped the radio back? In short, THEY DON'T. The person could have just placed something of like weight in the box but as far as PayPal is concerned the case is closed as soon as the tracking report shows "Delivered". PayPal could care less what was actually inside the box, and herein lies the problem. It's unfair for PayPal to hold the seller to a higher standard than the buyer because insodoing they make it easy for buyers like this to cheat you out of HUNDREDS or even THOUSANDS of dollars. PayPal practically invite such scams with the policies they've adopted over the years. That's all great and wonderful that PayPal supports the buyer the way they do but what about the sellers? The seller has to pay PalPal their fees, and then they turn around and screw the very people who keep them in business, and all based on the buyer's "good word". The sad thing is is how PayPal caters to these idiots by making the seller adopt the same return policies as if you bought the item at Walmart. The only thing that's gonna change any of this is one of two things.... If people suddenly become honest and stop trying to cheat others, or, if people just stop using PayPal altogether. Gee, I wonder which one will occur?
     
  4. KW6JFD

    KW6JFD Ham Member QRZ Page

    I would echo kk9w's comment. If your paypal is tied to a bank account, go close that account immediately, before the chargeback hits your bank. Take your money and physically go open a different account with a different bank. Then, when the radio gets back to you, tell the buyer and paypal that the radio has been tampered with, and being an electronic device it is now worthless and the buyer is responsible for it because he damaged it. Paypal policy is not law, it is a company policy and I'd take my chances in small claims court, challenging paypal that they had no right to place the burden of fiscal loss on you for anothers actions after a sale and transfer of property. Let them try to sue you and let a judge decide if it's actually legal that someone can tamper with property after a sale and then require a refund for something they damaged. I would wager that neither party would pursue a civil action. Tell the buyer to come get his radio.
     
  5. W9KG

    W9KG Ham Member QRZ Page

    When you receive the package, have a friend or relative record you opening the package with their phone. Make sure you get a closeup of the address labels and don't stop and start the video - record it in one continuous take - why? So they don't send you a brick and claim it was your radio.
     
  6. KC9UDX

    KC9UDX Platinum Subscriber Platinum Subscriber Life Member QRZ Page

    It's not his radio anymore. It may as well be a brick.
     
    N7PHX likes this.
  7. W7UUU

    W7UUU QRZ Lifetime Member #133 Administrator Volunteer Moderator Platinum Subscriber Life Member QRZ Page

    The First Rule of Paypal Club is NEVER EVER EVER SELL using Paypal. Only accept cash or US Postal (USPS) money orders. Period. You will never have to worry about a scammer reversing a deal and shipping you a brick in a box. EVER.

    The Second Rule of Paypal Club is NEVER EVER EVER EVER purchase using any other means than Paypal. You will never again have to worry about getting a nicotine stained piece of crap 2m all-mode rig shipped in a turnip box with zero packing. You absolutely will get your money back.

    Sorry to anyone offended by that - but I'm tired of being screwed on either side of the deal. Scamming is BIG BUSINESS and I have found a nearly flawless system to protect myself and if it pisses a person off now and again what my policies are, so be it. At least I know that I'm protected either way.

    Dave
    W7ME ME ME (It's NOT all about U U U!)
     
    N7PHX, KC8YLT and KC9UDX like this.
  8. KK6GMN

    KK6GMN Ham Member QRZ Page

    Guess I have been lucky. Been selling for years using PayPal and never an issue. Of course I never sell super high price items. I think the most expensive item I have sold was about $300.
     
    K2HAT likes this.
  9. N7PHX

    N7PHX XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    Radio arrived today. Paypal immediately took the funds from my bank account. Plugged in the radio, and sure enough... it no longer transmits.

    [​IMG]
     
    KE4RWS likes this.
  10. KE4RWS

    KE4RWS Ham Member QRZ Page

    To all those who think video-recording yourself or even having a "friend" verify via video you opening the box doesn't mean diddly squat. None of that proves anything to PayPal and it WON'T prove your innocence because the buyer could say you simply removed the transceiver, placed another item in the box, resealed it and then shot your unboxing video. The very idea that having another party "verify" on video the item that was returned to you was something other than what it was supposed to be (i.e. a heavy brick in place of a transceiver) won't mean a thing as far as PayPal is concerned because their return policies are already slated against the seller from the get-go. Time and time again I see people offering their sage advice of doing this as if it will somehow prove to PayPal you were scammed . . . well, it WON'T. From PayPal's perspective YOU the seller are the one that could be lying. Once the buyer has filed a claim the burden of proof rests solely on your shoulders but sadly the very nature of PayPal's policies leave the seller no real way of actually proving the item really worked to begin with (or what was returned to you was something other than what you sold them), which is why they automatically default a decision in the buyer's favor in cases like this. This method of thinking means all someone has to do is merely file a claim indicating the item doesn't work (even if it does) and the seller HAS to take the item back up to SIX MONTHS after purchase. Ultimately the only way to avoid any of this is to not use PayPal when selling such items because PayPal will always, Always, ALWAYS rule against you in this type of scenario :mad:
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2015
    N7PHX likes this.
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