Bad Treatment of New Hams in the U.K.

Well - I too have registered to reply to this thread. I apologise for the length of my post too.

As an amateur of some 30 years standing, and as a tutor on both the Foundation and Intermediate courses, and having the privilege of having helped some 10 (out of 13) gain their pass slips last month, I feel that I have earned the right to comment.

MOST locals are helpful to the new licencee, but it only takes one grumpy licence holder to undo the good work done by countless others. Most licencees who I have spoken to support the new simpler way into amateur radio, but some don't.

Many of the non-supporters have what they consider logical reasons against the new licence, but when the whole new licence structure is explained to them, then they modify their views.

In my view, the whole new licencing structure has yet to be explained in depth (don't ask me to do it here), but I believe that the whole idea is to make it easier to get on the first rung, but provides incentive to attain the full licence, which requires the same level of qualification as 10 years ago.

At least two of the 10 who passed last month (my son and my daughter-in-law to be) have indicated their aim to go straight for the intermediate licence as soon as a course can be arranged.

Of course, there are the true grumps - these are oft portrayed as "old G3's" who do no more than pound a key or chat about cabbages on 80 metres - this is a misrepresentation, in my experience, they are the folk of whatever age and licence who will complain about any and everything.

So, I would say to all, if you hear a M3 on the air, call him/her (3 of the 10 were YL's) and congratulate him/her on the new licence - don't do him down, because he may be an experienced licenceholder who holds a M3 call as well.

To M3SDX, keep it up, be slightly more bold, you should be able to show the grumps what it is all about. And as far as your signal is concerned, an experienced operator knows that 400W is only 3 or 4 S-points better than 10W to the same aerial, and the difference between a good site and a bad location can be much more than that.

Geoff

 

Well - I too have registered to reply to this thread. I apologise for the length of my post too.

As an amateur of some 30 years standing, and as a tutor on both the Foundation and Intermediate courses, and having the privilege of having helped some 10 (out of 13) gain their pass slips last month, I feel that I have earned the right to comment.

MOST locals are helpful to the new licencee, but it only takes one grumpy licence holder to undo the good work done by countless others. Most licencees who I have spoken to support the new simpler way into amateur radio, but some don't.

Many of the non-supporters have what they consider logical reasons against the new licence, but when the whole new licence structure is explained to them, then they modify their views.

In my view, the whole new licencing structure has yet to be explained in depth (don't ask me to do it here), but I believe that the whole idea is to make it easier to get on the first rung, but provides incentive to attain the full licence, which requires the same level of qualification as 10 years ago.

At least two of the 10 who passed last month (my son and my daughter-in-law to be) have indicated their aim to go straight for the intermediate licence as soon as a course can be arranged.

Of course, there are the true grumps - these are oft portrayed as "old G3's" who do no more than pound a key or chat about cabbages on 80 metres - this is a misrepresentation, in my experience, they are the folk of whatever age and licence who will complain about any and everything.

So, I would say to all, if you hear a M3 on the air, call him/her (3 of the 10 were YL's) and congratulate him/her on the new licence - don't do him down, because he may be an experienced licenceholder who holds a M3 call as well.

To M3SDX, keep it up, be slightly more bold, you should be able to show the grumps what it is all about. And as far as your signal is concerned, an experienced operator knows that 400W is only 3 or 4 S-points better than 10W to the same aerial, and the difference between a good site and a bad location can be much more than that.

Geoff

 

Well - I too have registered to reply to this thread. I apologise for the length of my post too.

As an amateur of some 30 years standing, and as a tutor on both the Foundation and Intermediate courses, and having the privilege of having helped some 10 (out of 13) gain their pass slips last month, I feel that I have earned the right to comment.

MOST locals are helpful to the new licencee, but it only takes one grumpy licence holder to undo the good work done by countless others. Most licencees who I have spoken to support the new simpler way into amateur radio, but some don't.

Many of the non-supporters have what they consider logical reasons against the new licence, but when the whole new licence structure is explained to them, then they modify their views.

In my view, the whole new licencing structure has yet to be explained in depth (don't ask me to do it here), but I believe that the whole idea is to make it easier to get on the first rung, but provides incentive to attain the full licence, which requires the same level of qualification as 10 years ago.

At least two of the 10 who passed last month (my son and my daughter-in-law to be) have indicated their aim to go straight for the intermediate licence as soon as a course can be arranged.

Of course, there are the true grumps - these are oft portrayed as "old G3's" who do no more than pound a key or chat about cabbages on 80 metres - this is a misrepresentation, in my experience, they are the folk of whatever age and licence who will complain about any and everything.

So, I would say to all, if you hear a M3 on the air, call him/her (3 of the 10 were YL's) and congratulate him/her on the new licence - don't do him down, because he may be an experienced licenceholder who holds a M3 call as well.

To M3SDX, keep it up, be slightly more bold, you should be able to show the grumps what it is all about. And as far as your signal is concerned, an experienced operator knows that 400W is only 3 or 4 S-points better than 10W to the same aerial, and the difference between a good site and a bad location can be much more than that.

Geoff

 

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (M3TMC @ Oct. 28 2002,10:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (m3sdx @ Oct. 26 2002,07:11)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If my 10 watts sounds like 400 watts to you then god help you when i get my class A...1000 watts OOPS i forgot they only run 400 watts over here full legal limit[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
From this part of your post it looks like you have no regard for the legal power limit anyway. Even if you get your A class its looking like you are going to flout the Law. Is this the problem the "Locals" have with you on 40m? Maybe not.

I enjoy QRP and am planning on building the K2.

No you didnt show me up.more like yourself![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
who mentioned "locals" YOU.. you seem to have a BIG problem when it comes to pointing the finger at people when you dont even know the true facts, firstly you accuse me of running 400 watts (jims 10 watts sounds more like 400watts)well i just thought id better let you know the times ive heard you transmitting you sound more like YOUR RUNNING 1 kilowatt not that its for me to point my finger at you and wrongly accuse you of running over the 10 watt power limit like you did me,99.9% of the posting have been supportive and many did quote the bad treatment part when they were new hams but i did expect a idiotic posting like yours...lets get the record straight i DO run 10watts only,i DO use a th6-dxx beam,i DO use a location 1000ft a.s.l and when i get my class A i will not flout the law like i do not flout it now, i hope this as answered your question and put your mind at rest for wrongly accuseing me of running more than my 10 watts...get on with operateing your own radio correctly and if other operators are doing things illegally then let the authorities sort the problem out...its not for you to accuse or point the finger at anyone until you know the true facts..

good luck with your dxing and qrp work.

james.

 

Well - I too have registered to reply to this thread. I apologise for the length of my post too.

As an amateur of some 30 years standing, and as a tutor on both the Foundation and Intermediate courses, and having the privilege of having helped some 10 (out of 13) gain their pass slips last month, I feel that I have earned the right to comment.

MOST locals are helpful to the new licencee, but it only takes one grumpy licence holder to undo the good work done by countless others. Most licencees who I have spoken to support the new simpler way into amateur radio, but some don't.

Many of the non-supporters have what they consider logical reasons against the new licence, but when the whole new licence structure is explained to them, then they modify their views.

In my view, the whole new licencing structure has yet to be explained in depth (don't ask me to do it here), but I believe that the whole idea is to make it easier to get on the first rung, but provides incentive to attain the full licence, which requires the same level of qualification as 10 years ago.

At least two of the 10 who passed last month (my son and my daughter-in-law to be) have indicated their aim to go straight for the intermediate licence as soon as a course can be arranged.

Of course, there are the true grumps - these are oft portrayed as "old G3's" who do no more than pound a key or chat about cabbages on 80 metres - this is a misrepresentation, in my experience, they are the folk of whatever age and licence who will complain about any and everything.

So, I would say to all, if you hear a M3 on the air, call him/her (3 of the 10 were YL's) and congratulate him/her on the new licence - don't do him down, because he may be an experienced licenceholder who holds a M3 call as well.

To M3SDX, keep it up, be slightly more bold, you should be able to show the grumps what it is all about. And as far as your signal is concerned, an experienced operator knows that 400W is only 3 or 4 S-points better than 10W to the same aerial, and the difference between a good site and a bad location can be much more than that.

Geoff

 

Accuse.................I think not. Sounds like 400w isnt, you are running 400w.

Act your age!

 

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (M3TMC @ Oct. 29 2002,16:34)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Accuse.................I think not. Sounds like 400w isnt, you are running 400w.

Act your age!

[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
its sour grape season up in yorkshire i see...

quote ..you are running 400 watts

quote..act your age!

keep takeing the medication...sounds like you need it.


james.

 

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (M3TMC @ Oct. 29 2002,16:34)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Accuse.................I think not. Sounds like 400w isnt, you are running 400w.

Act your age!

[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Lets look at this: Sounds like 400w isnt, (notice the isnt and comma) you are running 400w.

Like one said old man "Act your age" im just glad i wont ever have to speak to you! VFOs get rid of tosspots One turn your gone. Same for the thread. Stop looking.

Sympathy seeker............You might need a visit from a shrink. Lifes too short.
Anyway im off to GA today so see ya in 12 hour or so boys!!

 

All my life i have been plagued by jealous morons. Just remember a new twist on an old saying: If you can't join them, beat them-- beat hell out of them!! That has always worked well for me. So go after the Class A-- then tell them to go to hell!!

 

Dear, dear! It's all started to get a bit silly now boys with all this petty squabling. James does have a valid greivance, albeit some people may find it a petty one however I am glad to see that he is regaining his licence. What a waste of your time and effort just because of a few prats on the air have a superiority complex.
No, I don't have a licence and don't know how you feel but I've been around the hobby long enough, 24yrs as an SWL, to be able to voice an opinion, see Radcom Sept 02, and yes small amounts of abuse have been vented. However I would also add that I've heard far more HF operators assisting M3 licencees   with both operating and technical issues.
The thing to remember is that the UK doesn't have a monopoly on idiots and they are in the minority afterall, as can be judged by some of the replies here.
A few years back I joined an amateur radio club with the intention of utilising their services to gain my HF licence. Imagine the horror of a few members when I informed them that I'd been operating 11m SSB, via a barefoot Cobra 148 GTL-DX and a 5/8 wave vertical, for nearly 11 years. I didn't cause any problems, tvi etc, and operated my system to what I think was quite a high standard, having over 130 countries confirmed, however from the reaction you'd think I was a mass murderer or something!
The detremental comments on CB'ers in general & the superior attitude just got right up my nose and I decided not to bother any further. Yes, to some extent they had a point but not all CB operators are prats either and I've always been of the opinion that if the 11m SSB portion was legalised and regulated it would make an excellent stepping stone to further HF bands.
Anyway just you stick to your guns and enjoy the hobby you've worked hard for.

 

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Iang @ Oct. 21 2002,08:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">2 Sides to every coin,
Having watched this thread grow over the past few days i thought M3sdx might have come clean but no not the case,
So here we go,
About 2 weeks ago my radio buddy M0RDX & i (G0UWK)
were scanning 15M for dx and comparative signal reports as i have just finished refurbishing a KT34A and we were both eager to see how it stacked up against John's KT36XA,
I happened  across a Canadian XYL and after she had worked M3*** (Report 5/9 10 watts) James’s buddy

I called in for a report and was given 5/7 at 100 watts,
Slightly bemused i asked john to  call her after she had finished working James M3SDX (Report 5/3),
John (M0RDX was given 5/9 with 400 watts)
John was rather surprised to here that he was the same signal as M3*** who was only running 10 watts and we both explained why we were so surprised to the Canadian XYL,
John Explained the M3 Licence conditions in respect to the power restriction & that the physics did not add up
with the 5/9 report.
This is not the first time i have seen this difference in signal strengths between my signal & other M3 local stations.

Now normally i run legal limit (That’s 400 watts in the UK) Into Pileups
This is not the first instance i have been cut to the chase by M3 Operators under these circumstances and i know i am not alone. Sour grapes i hear you cry !! well no you would be wrong, I don't care about being beat fair & square, or even been beat by someone of greater skill,
But 10 watts into a 3ele tribander only 30 miles from us
Come on ! & forget all the lame excuses like “he is on a hill top & perhaps he just had a better path “
Both John & I live fairly high up (700ft asl) & most importantly have good take off positions in most directions with KLM Yagis at over 40ft AGL

Am I opposed to the M3 Licence ? of course not i am 31 years old not 91 i have been licensed for more that half of my life & all you who know me can vouch that i am reasonable with others hams on the air regardless of status.

Now for the crunch, Did James tell you all that he sent abusive e mails to both myself & John ? Containing such profanity that i dare not repeat here ?,
Did James tell you that in his e mail he openly admitted running more than 10 watts & also his friend M3RDX runs the full 100 watts ?
Did He tell you he gave john his full address in the hope that it could be settled by violence ?
No he did not ! This all sounds like tit for tat doesn’t it well it’s taken me days to reply for the same reason but I ask you all, would you sit back knowing these people are getting letters of comfort for being less than truthful ?
At no time did we even speak to either of these stations and I would not call these allegations “Abuse”
and yet the words "constant barrage of abuse" have been used – I guess other hams have fuelled this prior to our questioning because "constant barrage of abuse"  was certainly not from us.

So now the story is straight, having been call bastards & other words to that effect from people 3000+ miles away who do not even know us or even sought to find the details amazes me. & just remember when you put those callsigns on the cluster “wonderful signal for only 10 watts” you have been taken for a mug !
Want some proof ? take a look at how many times M3*** has been looked up on qrz.com more times than 5A1A !

Edited M3 Call out of Courtesy
Yours Truly
G0UWK & M0RDX[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I feel compelled to respond to this.

Although only a lowly "Class B", even I know that "propogation" is a special branch of the "laws of physics" and can cause 10W from one station to sound like 1kW from another located not too far away.

Are you implying that M3*** was also running 400W or are you just embarrassed that he got a better report?

Both in the amateur world and professionally I have made contacts using >20dB power less than other stations who were not able to make contact.

Geoff

 

first of all,if the m3*** is using higher power what has it got to do with any other ham,we are not the RA,it has nothing to do with us.second,ever heard some of the class a boys up the top end of 80mtrs(dx portion),there all using legall 400watts yeah right and pigs will fly,but as i sayed they could use 3000wtts,its nothing to do with us,were not the RA.TO THE M3 CHAP DO UR OWN THING NEVER LET ANYONE TELL YOU WHAT TO DO OK.ENJOY UR HOBBIE,ITS GREAT FUN.


FAE MM0KSS-KEV

 

Why waste time comparing signal levels between stations seperated by thirty miles? It is quite probable that a station with only 10 watts could beat out another station thirty miles away that was running 100 watts. There are too many variables involved to make a meaningful comparison. If you must compare, then try out different antenna systems on your own property.

Incidentally, why are some people bothered by other people receiving a better signal report? That's the real root of this problem.

Alan <NA4I>

 

Sorry to hear you have had this very minor inconvienience when you come back on i would be one of a million folk who would be more than pleased to work you ,ignore the idiots after all they are very well out numbered by folk with a better IQ .
Shawn G7PUW

 

Wow, this is an old thread!

I wonder if the OP ever got back on the air (I don't have time to read through 18 pages )