ARRL REBUTS DENIAL OF INTERFERENCE FROM BPL TRIAL

Discussion in 'Amateur Radio News' started by AA7BQ, Jan 15, 2005.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
ad: L-HROutlet
ad: l-rl
ad: Left-2
ad: Subscribe
ad: Left-3
ad: L-MFJ
  1. W1YW

    W1YW Ham Member QRZ Page

    Hmmm..

    You said I was 'ignore'.

    Can't stay away from spewing more persiflage, Lee?

    You've tried to find out about me, and now, tell us more about yourself; for example, why you are no longer employed by public utility companies, you know, the industry that's pushing BPL? Whay are you so against BPL? Is it just because you are a ham? Set us straight so there is no ambiguity nor fuzzy thought.

    Did you leave on good terms? What sort of bias might you have towards an industry in which you no longer have gainful employment?

    Give us your perspective so we can understand your motivation properly, and therefore will not misconstrue your intent.

    Many thanks,

    Chip N1IR
     
  2. KE4PJW

    KE4PJW Platinum Subscriber Platinum Subscriber QRZ Page

    pot kettle black

     
  3. WA3KYY

    WA3KYY Ham Member QRZ Page

    Actually Chip, we do not yet have sufficient data upon which to draw the conclusion you drew.  The missing elements are the total number of deployed BPL units in the area the interference was reported, the total number of HF active hams in the same area, and the distance of each active BPL device from the nearest HF active ham.

    If there are numerous active hams in the areas of BPL deployment and only three are affected then it is a small problem as you are claiming.  On the other hand, if these three are the only HF active hams in the test areas then we have 100% of the hams in the test area affected and the problem is serious enough to be concerned about but even that conclusion is premature because the sample size is too small.

    The mobile observations are a useful surrogate to predict what the interference potential to a fixed station may be and probably underestimate the potential due to lower efficiency antennas in a typical mobile installation.

    The claim has been made the mobile stations should not be reporting interference as a complaint because they can drive away from the interfering signal.  That may be possible today but not in the future.  I have a 9 mile daily commute that is on urban and suburban roads.  Nowhere along the entire route are the powerlines more than 50ft from the roadway.  If BPL were serving all the homes and businesses along this route the BPL Injectors would form a series of overlapping zones the entire route. Mobile observations made at the various test sites predict I would experience levels of interference sufficient to preclude any possibility of normal HF communications.  I submit I would have the legal right to file a harmful interference complaint with the BPL provider and expect them to correct the problem and not tell me I can just drive away from the interference or do I not have the right to operate HF mobile during my daily commute?

    73,
    Mike WA3KYY
     
  4. W6EM

    W6EM Ham Member QRZ Page

    Persiflage?  Thought that was your middle name....

    You're always good for a laugh, one way or the other.

    I've answered your barbs before.  Yes, these same questions.

    But, you haven't answered mine yet:  Why you are listed (in your brief CV on your firm's website) as having retired from Boston University when you left at the ripe YOUNG age of 42?  Strange, most leave their employment just before or when the next begins.  That wasn't the case in your situation as your company was formed about 5 years before you left, as I recall.

    There are competent alternative technologies to HF BPL, such as that proposed by Corridor Systems, that would be quite a good solution.  And, I'm proud that my former employer, Pacific Gas and Electric is continuing that trial.  In fact, I telephoned a friend who's a Senior Vice President and told him what I thought.  Who knows, maybe that was part of the reason the AT&T trial came to an end, do you think?

    We know that you have a pecunicary interest in relaxing Part 15 or at least its enforcement, since you manufacture Part 15 device components.  Bottle cap antennas, among them, for RFID systems.

    Chipper, this isn't Burger King, and you can't have it your way. So, "get out and get away to MacDondald's." Catchy old tune.... 


    Lee
    W6EM
     
  5. WA3KYY

    WA3KYY Ham Member QRZ Page

    The rules about not causing harmful interference do not make any exclusionary references to mobile or portable operations. IMO, the key here would be whether the interference is itself transient in nature. The neon signs are generally transient in that the interference may only be present for a short time while you drive by. Filling a complaint about those would indeed be unwarranted.

    However the hypothetical scenario I proposed was one with universal deployment of BPL with Injectors and Repeaters installed in sufficient numbers to serve all homes and businesses in the area. That would pretty much gaurantee you could not drive away from the interference even by altering the streets used for the commute. You move one or two blocks over and you still have BPL interference from the powerlines serving those homes and businesses with BPL.

    That may require notching of the ham bands along major commuting routes in urban and suburban settings along with notching in the close proximity to fixed ham stations. But as you say, it may take a FCC ruling to determine what is necessary on the part of BPL providers in this case.

    73,
    Mike WA3KYY
     
  6. W1YW

    W1YW Ham Member QRZ Page

    You've tried to find out about me, and now, tell us more about yourself; for example, why you are no longer employed by public utility companies, you know, the industry that's pushing BPL? Why are you so against BPL? Is it just because you are a ham? Set us straight so there is no ambiguity nor fuzzy thought.

    Did you leave on good terms? What sort of bias might you have towards an industry in which you no longer have gainful employment?

    Give us your perspective so we can understand your motivation properly, and therefore will not misconstrue your intent.

    And, is this your theme song?

    "Take a few lies
    And what a surprise
    Mix with a small smidgeon of truth...
    Put'em together and whatya got?
    Lee's bippity boppity POO!"

    73,

    Chip N1IR
     
  7. W6EM

    W6EM Ham Member QRZ Page

    I'm simply amazed that you don't do too well in the reading comprehension department.

    Were you 'blue at 42'?  [​IMG]

    Let's just say that I consult, at this point.

    By the way, you've been referring to 'your' company at times.  Why is it that you aren't its CEO, if it's your company?  I'm still waiting to hear your BU bye bye story.

    Have another cigar by the fire.

    Keeping a copy of your exchange (for the record).

    Lee
    W6EM
     
  8. W1YW

    W1YW Ham Member QRZ Page

    Sure!

    My ship came in at 48. Not 42, silly person.

    We Cohens retire early. My dad retired at 57 and my brother retired at 53.

    It's a mental thing Lee; the transition from you HAVE to work to you WANT to work.

    I like working. It's my cake and ales.

    I left BU before things got crazy there. Three transitions of president in 3 years. Could see it coming. Believe me; they wanted me to stay.  Still on excellent terms; my replacement is actually a board member  at my company. But, academia isn't where things are happening tech-wise right now.  As someone who makes things happen, hi-tech is where it's at; surely you agree?

    Of course, some people understand the virtue of making money work for the betterment of others, and I'm not one to sit on my hands. I did the travel thing for a while; became a very passable landscape photographer. And I play the blues guitar well enough to make  even Freddie King shout. If I was sedentary, I'm sure I'd set up a state of the art remote ham station; not too costly actually. But beyond entertainment, it's  bit outdated.

    Ah, so work beckons. Effort= Change.

    Why would I want to be CEO (again)? Why would that be fun?

    Of course, you still have just an EANSEE TEENSEY surface scratch of who I am, what I do, and the impact I've had, amigo. I am really tickled to think you believe I am arrogant (as you have said). Hahahah!

    No, let's NOT just say "I consult" (I don't BTW). Why do you "consult", as they say? That's the euphemism people usually use when they can't find a job. Let's hear ALL ABOUT YOU and your wonderful sojourn in life with the utility companies.

    Fill
    Us
    In:)

    Perspective and motivation, Please clarify.

    73,
    Chip N1IR
     
  9. W6EM

    W6EM Ham Member QRZ Page

    My employment history has absolutely nothing to do with financial gain or loss with respect to our subject, HF Access BPL.  Nor, any other widget or box between medium voltage distribution and a personal computer.  And, I don't offer a competing technology.  Nor, do I have an interest in other Part 15 technologies that would benefit from relaxed regulation or enforcement of interference complaints to licensed services as I believe you have.

    That being said, I've spent years supervising utility maintenance and construction crews.  And, because of my radio interests, paid particular attention to what were the causes of and the remedies for radio and television interference from electric distribution lines.  I also was very close to a 1975 trial by General Electric and Pacific Gas and Electric to impress VLF PLC on distribution feeders to read meters and gather information at customer service points.  In a few words, the trial was a failure, due to the excessive attenuation of the signal by the lossy carbon impregnated layer inside underground cables.  Surely you remember the skin effect.

    The other involvement demonstrated how much wasted time and costly efforts to locate sources of impulse noise and attempt to cure them.  Crews spent days tightening hardware, installing spring clips, remaking bond wires and the like.  Only to find the problem manifested itself again, a few spans away, on another day.  Another involved switched capacitor banks and high order harmonics generated from the bonding methods then used on metal hardware, called racks.  Lots of wasted time and money to solve interference problems.  In most cases, the complainants were hams.  In a few instances, television noise or telephone companies.

    I really believe that the power industry has more important work to do than to spend its time chasing interference complaints.  Quite simply, to properly construct, maintain and operate its power systems.  Systems that, I might add, already have many robust and fault tolerant means of control that are not dependent on the very line conductors being controlled, to enable the flexibility to reconfigure and restore parts that have been de-energized due to faults.

    Did you enjoy your participation in the northeast outage of August 2003?  If you did, then no changes needed.  If you didn't, you ought to be concerned about how much preventive maintenance that utilities are doing.  So that when trees grow into overhead lines, or when substation transformers, circuit breakers, or protective relays fail, you won't have a repeat of the summer of 2003.

    If power companies install BPL, they will be expending a great deal more time dealing with interference complaints and, as such, expending more of their sparse maintenance funds in that endeavor instead of maintaining power system equipment to ensure its proper and continued operation.

    That's my interest, Mr. Chips.  The maintenance and enhancement of utility service reliability. No bucks involved for me, as my retirement income is derived from an annuity held by a bank, as are all individuals who are retirees of Pacific Gas and Electric.


    Ciao,

    Lee
    W6EM
     
  10. W1YW

    W1YW Ham Member QRZ Page

    I am confused: what were the circumstances under which you left this utility company? How do we know you don't harbor some grudge against that industry? Keep in mind, now, that the utility industry stands most to benefit from BPL.

    You mention a 'partial' pension. Why just a 'partial'? My impression is that folks who are let go are occasionally allowed to negotatiate such things as 'partials'.

    Since you say you are now "consulting", would you decline work from some group, or company, that was.is trying to kill, impede, or stop BPL? Are you trying to drum up work in this circumstance?

    What work have you done with the ARRL, if any?

    These are inmportant points to air out there Lee, since it is important to fully understand the motivation of someone with such a strong view on this subject. I am sure that you appreciate the request for this scrutiny, as, indeed, you applied to myself--falsely I might add-- but thus extending me the privilege of setting the matter straight.

    So, please expatiate on these matters for our edification and enlightenment of perspective.

    Many thanks,
    Chip N1IR
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page