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ARRL Entry Level License Committee Report July 2017

Discussion in 'Ham Radio Discussions' started by NN4RH, Aug 2, 2017.

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  1. AC0GT

    AC0GT Ham Member QRZ Page

    I try.

    No, I haven't considered that because the idea just occurred to me hours ago.

    Are you sure about that? Shouldn't I first, perhaps, make this a complete thought before I send it off to the FCC? What I have now is just a general idea with a dozen different variations on the theme I'm considering. If I don't clean this up first, discuss this with others to get some input, and so forth then I can just imagine the response I'd get...

    "The FCC declines the petition based on vagueness, the petition does not include enough detail for the FCC to act upon. The FCC also declines the petition on general principles as the electronic documents received included an animated GIF of a fat lady fainting. The FCC requests that the petitioner grow up a little."

    For such a petition to be successful there must be consideration of the "art of the possible" or whatever the lingo is. There has to be enough people on board first, there's a lot I can compromise on but a few I will not. I think it would be wise to think and discuss this some more, and it appears that the ARRL thinks similarly. Perhaps I can plant a seed in some minds here and see if it grows. There's still a lot of stamp collectors, a vocal minority, still bitter about previous restructuring. I think in a few more years as aged hams get buried with their licenses clenched in their fists that such an idea will go over more smoothly. I can wait.
  2. KK5JY

    KK5JY Ham Member QRZ Page

    Certainly, but working on that seemed a more constructive use of your time than debating it with people like me. :)
    I don't believe that is true.

    The only people who have to be convinced are the Commission members. If you convince them, it happens. If you don't, it doesn't. An open comment period isn't a democratic vote. Sometimes the Commission considers how many respondents take a particular viewpoint, but not always. What is important is that you engage with FCC, and communicate what you think is important. If they agree with you, you win. If they disagree with you, you will understand why your idea lacks the practical traction for adoption.
  3. K0RGR

    K0RGR Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    When you make this kind of assertion, I think it's a result of 'cherry picking'. Yes, some subjects don't get nearly as much emphasis as they did when I was in school, and I can tell you for a fact that what I studied was not what my parents studied in high school. I had a choice of languages I could study, my parents had to study Latin. My parents learned to do square roots by hand. I learned how to use a log table and a slide rule. The kids now know how to use a scientific calculator.

    I almost majored in biology in college. When our exchange student brought her high school biology homework to me for help , I was utterly worthless. It was all about recombinant DNA and which specific chemicals were used to isolate segments of genes. When my daughter was a sophomore in high school, they studied electrical theory in considerably more depth than any of the ham radio exams! She had to know Ohm' Law, Thevenin's theorem, parallel and series components, and do some pretty involved circuit analysis - stuff I studied in college.

    On the other hand, I am a little taken aback when an adult signs something in block print because they aren't comfortable using script. That is weird.

    Much like the ham radio exams, they are different now. Some might think they are easier, when in fact, more relevant information has replaced less relevant info over time, and 'hard' stuff on the old tests has been replaced with something more current. The ham exams need more of this process, though. There is now a brief mention of DSP techniques on the Tech exam, but nothing on SDR.
    N2EY likes this.
  4. NK2U

    NK2U XML Subscriber QRZ Page


    Excellent, I couldn't have said it better myself: IF THEY WANT MORE PRIVILEGES, LET THEM GET A GENERAL!!

    You hit the nail right on the head!

    de NK2U
    WA4BCS likes this.
  5. NK2U

    NK2U XML Subscriber QRZ Page


    They're working at getting something for nothing!


    de NK2U
    N4GKS likes this.
  6. N2EY

    N2EY XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    Which leads to the bell-the-cat question:

    How do you get the folks at FCC who make the decisions to agree with what you propose? Particularly when there are huge numbers of opposing comments?
  7. N2EY

    N2EY XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    You clearly missed the point.
    N4AAB, K7JEM and WZ7U like this.
  8. KK5JY

    KK5JY Ham Member QRZ Page

    Well, there are some assumptions built into your question that are not necessarily true:
    1. That the Commission is obligated to give consideration to your ideas, good or otherwise. They are an administrative agency, not a democratic or representative one. They are the closest thing to a monarchy that we have in the US.
    2. That there would be huge numbers of opposing comments. In all of the more energetic discussions on QRZ, there are a few people on each side, but I wouldn't say there are huge numbers. You might be surprised how few people show up to a public comment period to an NPRM.
    3. That the Commission has to give any weight to any comments submitted to an NPRM, regardless of who submits them or in what quantity per position. Even if public comments run 90% against your proposal, FCC can still rule in your favor, and they are not required to "count up the votes" as if it were election day. They can if they want, but public comments are subjective -- they aren't votes. Any single comment can be 100% pro, against, 50/50, 75/25, etc.

    The Commission decides, unilaterally. If you have an idea, submit it. The only way to make sure they reject your idea is to fail to submit it. If your idea is going to be implemented, it is going to have to be submitted. So submit the idea, which as many supporting facts as you can put together. That's the best you can do.

    To answer your question, there is no "strategy" to ensure passage of your idea. You submit what you think is a good idea, with the best supporting facts you can gather, and you accept the decision you get. There are no other options.

    (In full disclosure, I'm against ARRL's #1 and #2 ideas, as outlined by the OP; I just think this discussion is fruitless, and the people discussing this need to move their discussion to FCC or move on, especially since both ideas were already explicitly rejected in an FCC order that isn't that old.)
  9. KK5JY

    KK5JY Ham Member QRZ Page

    Perhaps he missed the point you were trying to make, but his approach has the benefit of explicit endorsement of standing FCC policy on this subject, and for the same reasons.
  10. NK2U

    NK2U XML Subscriber QRZ Page


    No, just used YOUR words against you.

    How about deleting the Tech and just having the General and Extra class licenses?

    Would that work for you?

    de NK2U

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