ARRL Entry Level License Committee Report July 2017

Discussion in 'Ham Radio Discussions' started by NN4RH, Aug 2, 2017.

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  1. N4GKS

    N4GKS Ham Member QRZ Page

  2. AF7XT

    AF7XT Ham Member QRZ Page

    Forget entirely any possibility of the Industry Canada basic/advanced license structure being implemented in the U.S.

    If you think for an instant that the Federal Clown Commission is capable of accurately determining the difference between a 250 watt signal and a 1,500 watt signal, let alone enforce the difference, you are truly delusional .

    Any discussion of the Amateur Auxiliary and its Official Observers assisting the A.R.R.L. and the Federal Clown Commission is just as demented.

    The enforcement capabilities of the Federal Clown Commission have been systematically decimated by their own consistent inability to present themselves as a useful, bureaucratic entity, necessary for the public good. I say again "the public good" . Not the good of Amateur Radio.

    If you want a better amateur radio community, make one, and quit grousing about it here . 300+ posts here with so little constructive content leads me to believe few actually care To "advance the art, science, and enjoyment of Amateur Radio.
    NL7W likes this.
  3. AC0GT

    AC0GT Ham Member QRZ Page

    Oh, I noticed their devotion to incentive licensing. They saw from 2000 to 2004 a lot of amateurs upgrade, no doubt due to the reduction in Morse Code testing. There was little reason then to expect anything but another flurry of upgrades from dropping the Morse Code testing completely. That's not what happened though. Incentive licensing became "disincentive" licensing once all the pent up demand for "no-code" upgrades was satisfied. Judging by the FCC numbers collected by the ARRL about 80,000 to 90,000 decided that the FCC would have to pry their "13WPM certificates" from their cold dead fingers. They'd rather keep their bragging rights than "downgrade" to Extra. Well, 15 years have passed and roughly half of them got their wish of being buried with their Advanced license.

    It seems such hypocrisy for these same Advanced license holders complain of the tests being too easy and yet not having taken the tests themselves. They've all had to renew their license once by now so it's not like we can just claim they are not using their license. They had to make an active decision to stay where they are.

    My idea to remove incentive licensing is not new, I just haven't seen it formally proposed to the FCC yet. Whenever it's brought up online inevitably people will just scream that these new amateurs should just pass the current tests. That works, but so would having a new test and new license without these arbitrary frequency limits. Why should they get access to frequencies that current General and Advanced license holders do not? It's simple, because they PASSED THE TEST!

    It's time to bury "disincentive" licensing. It's already dead, the body just hasn't reached room temperature yet.
    N4AAB likes this.
  4. AC0GT

    AC0GT Ham Member QRZ Page

    That's funny, I just happened across a report of a CB radio operator being found and cited by the FCC for possessing an illegal 6 watt transmitter. If they can tell the difference between 6 watts and 4 watts then they can tell the difference between 250 watts and 1500 watts.

    Just do a search on "legal max power CB" and you'll find a bunch of articles and news reports of people getting caught for smaller infractions than running a 1500 watt transmitter when not licensed to possess one.
  5. KK5JY

    KK5JY Ham Member QRZ Page

    Well, I can see why people think that. But I took the Advanced in 1995(ish), and I took the Extra after the Advanced was dropped by FCC. And the Advanced guys are actually correct. The new Extra test was substantially easier than the Advanced test. It's not hypocrisy, at least not by default. The newer tests are easier. The Technician test is nothing compared to the one I took back in the 1980's.
    You have a flair for the dramatic, I'll give you that. :)

    Have you considered that you can, as an individual, file a petition with the FCC to consider your idea for an NPRM? Many hams have done so, and many have been considered and quoted in FCC rulemaking discussions. If you think your idea has merit, write it up and send it to them. You will get a response. If you want to see the best format to use, look at the numerous petitions that others have filed, including ARRL. They are all public record.

    If you really want your idea to get traction, the place to discuss it is in a petition to FCC, and not here. If they feel it has merit, they will have an open comment period for others to comment on yoru idea. I forget the exact sequence of events, but it's a very open and accessible process.
    N0TZU and KQ4MM like this.
  6. W0AAT

    W0AAT XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    No kidding, I have an open interference ticket from 5 years ago they have never acted on! I messaged them multiple times, not ONE answer. So I told them what I thought of them in the final message(and I cannot repeat it here without massive censorship!)
  7. AF7XT

    AF7XT Ham Member QRZ Page


    I try to keep my replies to the Federal Clown Commission no more than creative, avoiding any identifiable insult or obscenity.
    I once wrote " deceased" on a piece of mail from Unka Chuck and returned to sender. It resulted in nearly 6 months of my convincing what seemed to be half the known world that reports of my demise were premature.
  8. WD4IGX

    WD4IGX Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    There's always more to that. I'd bet substantial money they didn't just hear a guy that sounded a tiny bit too loud, DF 'im, measure field strength, and decide he was running 6 watts instead of 4.
  9. K0RGR

    K0RGR Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    As for the whole question of power level enforcement, I have to say 'so what?'.

    How does FCC determine that a Tech or Novice doing CW (or SSB on 10) is only running 200 watts? How does FCC determine that an Extra chasing DX is running 1.5 KW and not 5 KW? And why does anyone want to lose sleep over it? People who cheat on power limits are only cheating themselves - they aren't 'putting one over' on anybody, really.

    Yes, it does happen. I've heard stories from former FCC enforcement people about it. When close in field strength measurements indicate too much power, they do an in-person inspection. In one case, they found only a legal 1KW linear amp, operating within the limits. But the inspector noticed that the coax leaving the room was RG-8, while the coax leading up to the antenna was 7/8 inch hardline. The real amplifier was discovered in the attic. I remember how this guy sounded on the air, at a distance of about 20 miles, and there was enough reason to be suspicious! However, I don't think anyone would argue that this practice is widespread.

    I remember back when Novices had a 75 watt INPUT power limit, and no VFOs, and you'd see pictures in CQ of Novice stations with Swan 500s on the desk. Heck, if someone saw a picture of one of my Novice stations, they'd have flipped - I was using my dad's KW linear. But instead of running it at 3KV on the plates, I was running it at 600 volts and 125 mA plate current - put out about 30 watts as I recall. I eventually upgraded to a Knight Kit T-60 that put out about 35-40. The linear didn't like running at that power, and the four 150 volt regulated supplies in series did strange things from time to time.

    Perhaps the disadvantage of setting a really low power limit would be that it might encourage more cheating. People would buy cheap, used 100 watt rigs instead of newer 10 watt ones. The K.I.S.S. rule would say keep it at 200 watts as it is currently for Techs on HF, but that still seems like way too much to me.
    AC0GT and WD4IGX like this.
  10. AC0GT

    AC0GT Ham Member QRZ Page

    Where in the world would the current generation learn that they could graduate high school with what would have been a sixth grade education years ago? What would make them think that they could get something if only they whined enough for it? Perhaps because they learned from the previous generation that there is such a thing as a free lunch.

    The "kids these days" are the product of their education, in and out of school. They cannot be blamed for being ignorant of what they were never offered. Who withheld that from them? Their parents, their teachers, just generally the adults in the room.

    You can complain about "kids these days" but I suggest you do it in front of a mirror.
    KK5JY likes this.

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