ARRL Entry Level License Committee Report July 2017

Discussion in 'Ham Radio Discussions' started by NN4RH, Aug 2, 2017.

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  1. K3EY

    K3EY XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    some cell phones cost more than a new HF rig---give me a break
  2. N0TZU

    N0TZU Platinum Subscriber Platinum Subscriber QRZ Page

    Very well put.

    Many under 30 don't listen to any radio, not AM/FM, nor broadcast TV, and many don't have cable/sat TV either. Their communications "world" comes through their cell phone, tablet or computer. Many prefer texting on their phone rather than making a voice call.

    If they have curiosity about communications, it will likely be about that world, i.e., digital communications. It would make far more sense to interest a young person in communicating in a similar way to her cell phone texts than by voice. And radio projects along those same lines would likely be more interesting as well, starting with the items needed to get on HF digital modes (and let's be modern and count software and it's setup to be part of the project).
  3. K0RGR

    K0RGR Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    Cheap is relative. Compared to the commercial radiotelephones of the 1980's, all cellphones today are cheap, and you generally don't pay through the Whazoo for every second you use, either. And if you don't want to pay $700 for in iPhone, wait and buy a used one for $100 like I do.
  4. K3EY

    K3EY XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    I wouldn't give up my iPhone 7 and never buy used.

    And you're right with above statement regardless with today's technology almost anything amateur
    is a joke to most people in today's world. It's seen as mostly an old man's hobby or a shut-in, like
    something to do till you die. Exception here: Guys who do SOTA and other such things that require
    actual movement. To carry on with this asinine thread about license requirements is moot and pointless
    of interest only to the zealots.

    I wanna tell you 'bout Texas Radio and the Big Beat
    Comes out of the Virginia swamps
    Cool and slow with plenty of precision
    With a back beat narrow and hard to master

    Some call it heavenly in its brilliance
    Others, mean and rueful of the Western dream
    I love the friends I have gathered together on this thin raft
    We have constructed pyramids in honor of our escaping
    This is the land where the Pharaoh died

    The Negroes in the forest brightly feathered
    They are saying, "Forget the night.
    Live with us in forests of azure.
    Out here on the perimeter there are no stars
    Out here we is stoned – immaculate."

    Listen to this, and I'll tell you 'bout the heartache
    I'll tell you 'bout the heartache and the loss of God
    I'll tell you 'bout the hopeless night
    The meager food for souls forgot
    I'll tell you 'bout the maiden with wrought iron soul

    I'll tell you this
    No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn

    I'll tell you 'bout Texas Radio and the Big Beat
    Soft-driven, slow and mad, like some new language

    Now, listen to this, and I'll tell you 'bout the Texas
    I'll tell you 'bout the Texas Radio
    I'll tell you 'bout the hopeless night
    Wandering the Western dream
    Tell you 'bout the maiden with wrought iron soul
  5. WG8Z

    WG8Z Ham Member QRZ Page

    Foam coax ratings,, maybe if your big on unbalanced feedlines. I favor balanced feedlines.
    My Jumpers, only coax I use for HF is double shielded teflon. Even then it might give me something to use those end of spool pieces of LDF5 sitting in my shed.
    Not a deal breaker. Plenty of CBers out there running 5kw plus.

    Electric bill
    Well I look at it as free heat in the winter time. Plus look at the duty cycle. Maybe it might
    make me chose my words more carefully and listen more. (My wife agrees on that point!)

    I rarely run more than 600w anyway but sure makes the idea of restoring an old BC transmitter and not having to worry about castrating the PA more appealing.
  6. KK5JY

    KK5JY Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    Thanks to the OP for posting a summary of the report.

    Already rejected by FCC:

    As discussed above, the current structure of operator license classes and their associated operating privileges was developed so that additional frequency privileges are a significant incentive for amateur radio operators to advance their communication and technical skills. Requests that we authorize additional operating privileges to Novice and Technician Plus Class licensees we believe are inconsistent with this incentive licensing structure because the requests, if granted, would lessen the additional privileges a licensee would receive when they upgraded. In this regard, we note that the additional privileges the petitions request we authorize these licensees, specifically the additional frequency bands and emission types in the MF and HF bands, are currently authorized to General Class licensees, and that Novice and Technician Plus Class licensees can earn these privileges by passing only one or two written examinations...

    In that additional frequency privileges and the authority to transmit messages using additional emission types are major incent ives for licensees to upgrade to a higher class of operator license, and we do not want to diminish this incentive, we conclude that it would not be in the public interest to propose authorizing additional HF frequency privileges to Technician Class licensees.

    Already rejected by FCC:

    The NCVEC Petition II proposes that we establish a new "Communicator Class" license as the new introductory amateur service operator license. NCVEC claims that what attracts individuals to amateur radio appears to have changed over the years, as a consequence of which the current license system does not correlate particularly well with the present needs of licensees, and it argues that a new introductory license would allow individuals who presently are not licensees access to amateur radio in a meaningful way and with enough privileges so that they can experience a reasonable cross-section of the various facets of amateur radio...

    Regarding requests that we establish a new introductory class of operator license, we note that the requested license would authorize significantly greater HF privileges than the current Novice or Technician Plus Class license authorizes, but significantly less than the General Class license currently authorizes. We do not believe that such a new type of license is necessary because, as the Commission observed in the Phone Band Expansion NPRM, Novice and Technician Plus Class licensees can easily upgrade to the General Class, thereby obtaining access to significantly more spectrum than the requested new introductory class of operator license would authorize... We do not believe that these requirements are unreasonable, given the amount of spectrum available to General Class licensees. Accordingly, we deny the requests.

    Endorsed by FCC:

    Problem solved, nothing to see here. The thirteen pages of debate were entertaining, though. :cool:
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2017
    N0TZU and AG5DB like this.
  7. K1OIK

    K1OIK Platinum Subscriber Platinum Subscriber QRZ Page

    We didn't have to draw diagrams to wire a house. We drew schematics.
  8. AC0GT

    AC0GT Ham Member QRZ Page

    I took a look at my calendar this morning and noticed it's not 2005 any more. Perhaps things changed a bit since then?

    If anything I'm pretty sure the people in charge of the FCC has changed. Even if the question has not changed the situation surrounding the question, and the people giving the answers, certainly has.

    I believe that the incentive licensing plan has failed to live up to it's goals. If there is an incentive it's creating the wrong one. Given the history of giving enhanced privileges for increased Morse Code capability, well beyond it's usefulness, it's created a disincentive for people to upgrade. I see too many people taking pride in having a Novice or Advanced license because it shows they passed a Morse Code test at some point. So odd, to me at least, that people see a failure to upgrade as a goal in a system designed from the beginning to reward a demonstration of demonstrated knowledge in electronics and communications with expanded privileges.

    Seems to me that it is time to do away with incentive licensing, or somehow restructure the licensing to restore the incentive that seems to be lost.

    I believe all amateur licenses need to be grandfathered and just one come to replace it. Either you get a license or you don't. Keep the three tests if you like, but one must pass them all before being issued a license. I can get behind a two tier structure, with an entry level license where output power is limited, or some other primarily safety minded limits. The limits on the frequencies a licensed amateur can operate adds unnecessary complexity to the band plan and does little to nothing to create an incentive any more, again I give the nearly 50,000 Advanced licenses as an example of this disincentive.

    If these Advanced license holders are so smart then they'd have upgraded at some point in the last 15 years. I will question the intelligence and knowledge of any Advanced amateur that claims they could pass the Extra test at any time. Oh, really? They why haven't you? I know the answer, they value their "badge of honor" of having passed a Morse Code test over any actual technical skill.
    K8LGY likes this.
  9. KK5JY

    KK5JY Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    Yes, the date is different. That's all.

    If you look at the arguments that were made by ARRL, NCVEC, and others, with respect to the FCC decisions that I quoted, you will see that they are nearly identical to those offered today. Nothing about the arguments has changed since 2005, and FCC is certainly not more interested in ham radio than they were 12y ago. In fact, their focus on radio in general has declined since then.

    I appreciate your opinions. This is a forum, so it's the place to share them. What I shared was facts, from the official historical record. Unless something substantial has changed other than the date on the calendar, the likelihood that ARRL will get a substantially different ruling than they did in 2005 is very low.

    Maybe they don't like the loss of credibility that they will have when faced with the numerous people who spout "no-code-extra" and other such nonsense. The Advanced class licensees are the only ones who can still prove that they passed the code exams, and in some ham circles, it matters. I kept my Advanced license for many years after the no-code rule passed. I upgraded when I found a use for the little slivers of HF space offered by the Extra, but not before. You can belittle people who stopped at Advanced if you want, but saying such nonsense doesn't help your argument for restructuring one bit, and it doesn't answer any of the issues that FCC raised in their refusal to change the structure 12y ago.
  10. AC0GT

    AC0GT Ham Member QRZ Page

    All cell phones fit in a pocket, can create a private connection to those licensed and not, and can be expected to do so most any time and most any place.

    Also, my cell phone does much more than make phone calls. It's a pocket calculator, flashlight, and so much more. No wonder people prefer them to a HF radio that is bigger than a shoe box, does only one thing (often poorly), and the thing it does is limited to talking to people that a lot of young people would rather not talk to.

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