Anytone UV578IIIPro or Yaesu FT300DR/DMR, DSTAR or FUSION?

Discussion in 'Ham Radio Discussions' started by KG0BA, Jul 2, 2020.

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  1. KG0BA

    KG0BA Ham Member QRZ Page

    I am trying to decide between buying a FUSION, DMR, or DSTAR mobile radio. I'm considering the Anytone 578 (DMR), and the Yaesu FT300DR (Fusion), and haven't completed research on DSTAR options.

    The Anytone 578 has VHF/UHF and 220 Mhz (DMR), the Yaesu does not, only Digital VHF/UHF (FUSHION).

    Repeaters on 220 Mhz are becoming less prolific, and some believe they're on the way out in the USA, with some of the band width being skimmed-off by the FCC to other services. It's said that manufacturers are opting to manufacture a lesser number of radios with 220 Mhz because of the band's waning popularity. Plus, the 220Mhz band included would mean that if you're going to use the 220Mhz band, then you would also need a tri-band antenna.

    So, while the Anytone 578 has the band width advantage, as well as a stellar reputation for performance, I'm leaning toward the Yaesu FT300DR, simply because the 220 band isn't that desireable to have. And, I've been a Yaesu guy for 35 years, and their quality/performance has consistently also been outstanding. Plus, the FUSHION system is said to be the easiest to program when comparing DMR, DSTAR, and FUSHION programming.

    Of the two repeaters in my rural area, one is VHF Fusion, less than a mile from my house, and the other that is ten miles away is UHF and multiple mode capable, DMR, DSTAR, and FUSION.

    I also have a Yaesu FT3R (Fusion), and could take it along when traveling, and easily access all the Fusion Repeaters while traveling in urban areas. If you have a cheapy with you that's DMR capable (Baofeng, TYT, etc...), then just use it to access DMR or DSTAR repeaters, if need be, and the Baofengs are easy to program with CHIRP open source software.

    The way I see it, the real remedy is to take along the Shark OpenSpot 3 when traveling, and that seems to totally level the playing field so you can access any and all of the digital modes through your cell phone's internet connection. And, the Shark Open Spot 3 can just as easily be employed on your home turf as well.

    Of course, the hot spot option assumes that cost is no option, especially with the Shark Open Spot 3 ($300.00).

    Now, these are all assumptions on my part because I'm just getting started, and trying to uderstand the options. Do I understand the options about right, and which would you buy, the Anytone 578 or the Yaesu FT300DR?
     
  2. N1VAU

    N1VAU XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    Fusion repeaters are getting very popular around here.
     
  3. K0RGR

    K0RGR Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    Looking at the repeater situation in your area, I'm not sure which flavor I'd recommend, and it's a little hard without listening for a while to see which mode is the most popular around you. I think your Shark RF will be your friend. I have all three modes here, and I think Fusion is the top dog right now, at least in this area. I also have a Shark that stays tuned to Dstar Reflector XRF757A, which is a 'multimode' reflector that can be accessed with any of the three modes, and more, I think. DMR and Fusion use the same datastream, so they talk to each other well, and Dstar uses a slightly different datastream, but it can talk to the other two modes fairly well.

    If you are planning to travel, that might shade my decision. One issue that you may already know is that not all Fusion repeaters are connected to the rest of the world. To see what's on the Xwires network, Google 'Yaesu Active Node List'. https://www.yaesu.com/jp/en/wires-x/id/active_node.php
    Also, note which of those are analog and which are digital. Yaesu has made a ton of repeaters available to clubs for a very cheap price in various different programs. Many of those repeaters are locked in analog mode, and others are standalone Fusion machines.

    I just bought a FT70D because our club is putting up it's first Fusion repeater next to the existing Dstar and it will be a dual mode repeater. So far, I am having fits trying to get the driver for the programming cable to load - I'm about to give up on this computer and try another one. I have the FTM400XDR, and it lacks one feature that I consider essential for travel - switchable scan groups - somethings that's been standard on pretty much all FM mobiles since the time of creation. Cheaper Yaesu's, including the new FTM300, have it, but this rig does not. The FTM400 is easier to program than doing most DMR from scratch, but it requires a bizarre, expensive cable to do it.

    It's about 90 by 90 right now, with a high pressure dome in place, and I'm hearing all sorts of repeaters from 9-land. One of our local Fusion machines is apparently on the same frequency as a distant DMR machine. The only Fusion machine I can reliably use appears to be down this morning.
     
  4. KJ5T

    KJ5T Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    I think if you already have the Fusion radio the Shark is the way to go. I haven't bit the bullet yet myself but the idea that you can use your Fusion radio on the other modes if very appealing. The fact that the OpenSpot 3 does have a built in battery makes it even more appealing for taking along with you. Tether it to your phone in a hotel room and check into your favorite nets while traveling. So far I have only been on Fusion via a local repeater with my mobile set-up.
     
  5. K6CPO

    K6CPO Ham Member QRZ Page

    About the FTM-400XDR... Have you tried programming it with a MicroSD card? This is a feature I wish every mobile radio had. It's so much simpler to remove a card from a radio mounted under the seat of a vehicle and take it into the house to reprogram than drag a computer and cable out to the vehicle like I had to do with other radios. Another advantage of programming with a card is you can set up different repeaters groups on separate cards and use them when you travel.

    I don't know what cable you using with your FT-70D, but the RT Systems cables and software work perfectly and there are no issues with drivers at all. Just a thought...
     
  6. K4AGO

    K4AGO Platinum Subscriber Platinum Subscriber QRZ Page

    Is there a question hidden in there somewhere or is this just a back door advertisement?

    In your last sentence, you asked "Which would you buy?" My answer is:

    1) I don't buy Chinese radios. "Stellar review" is a matter of opinion and I totally disagree with your interpretation.
    2) The Anytone 578 does not have a "band width advantage." It is a tri-band radio, yes, but there is no "band width advantage" on any of the three bands.
    3) 220 MHz died in my area about 5 years ago. It didn't just die, it dropped dead overnight. But, then, 2 meters and 70cm are both dead too.
    4) System Fusion (C4FM) is the fastest-growing (statistically) digital voice/data mode in the USA.
    5) Yaesu's C4FM digital voice/data implementation is said to be the easiest to use. I have only used DStar and it is not difficult to use.
    6) If Baofeng manufactures a DMR radio (I don't think they do,) they are not sold in the United States.
    7) DMR seems to be difficult to get operating. Lots of hams around here bought cheap, Chinese DMR radios and have no understanding of the "code Plug" concept. Many in my area have owned DMR radios for 6 months or more and cannot operate DMR because they can't find another ham to help them write a code plug.
    8) Shark OpenSpot is a VOIP interface and unless you buy a Chinese knockoff, they are very expensive. You also better have a good data plan if you intend to use the interface with a cell phone while driving around the country.
    9) I use DStar because I won an Icom ID5100A transceiver in a contest a couple of years ago. DStar is not difficult to use and there is NO programming with DStar or C4FM. With DMR, as previously stated, you do have to write a code plug. That is said to be a simple thing to do. But, simple is a concept that confounds many hams.

    Buy what you can afford. Buy what you will use. Buy what will be useful to you in your area. Buy what you want. No one can tell you what you should buy. That decision is yours. If you let someone else make that decision for you, you will most likely be unhappy with the outcome.

    Good luck in your quest. And, remember Myers law: "It is a simple thing to make things complicated and a complicated thing to make things simple.:
     
    KM4DXI likes this.
  7. KJ5T

    KJ5T Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    Amazon sales a few Baofeng models which claim DMR capabilities (DM-1701, DM-1801, DM-1702B). There may be others, not sure how they really compare with the TYT and other models but they do make them and they are available for purchase. I have heard the same about DMR being more difficult to program, I look at the stuff from time to time but haven't opened that can of worms yet.
     
  8. KG0BA

    KG0BA Ham Member QRZ Page

    Well, I don't think getting opinions about what someone else might be interested in buying, and why, is a foolish endeavor, do you? It kind of seems like your shaking your finger at me, or poking me lightly in the chest, don't you think? Some points are well taken, and I agree with, some I don't.

    More importantly, it is the technical "WHY" someone might make a decision to go a certain direction that's relavent to me, not neccessarily an opinion without the technical experience with the brand, per se, especially if opinion has an obvious predjudice, without specific justification for a "technical' prejudice. Predjudice, technical or not, especially without specific technical justification, taints the opinion I'm seeking.

    I don't have any particular love for China more than anybody else. If you have first hand experience with Anytone performance and quality, then fine. I have 35 years experience with Yaesu, and my preference (bias) is Yaesu, based on my expereince with their build quality and consistent performance. But, that doesn't mean I would bad mouth Anytone just because thy're made in China, when I've heard they build a good product. Fact is, I want to know more...

    Now, if your prejudice against Anytone (China) is geopolitical, I can understand that, I come with the same degree of atitude toawrd China as you obviosly do. But, remember, things change, there was once a huge geopolitical prejudice against Japan, and look where we are today? I know of no amateur radio made in the USA that's affordable, most are made in the country that bombed Pearl, and they're EXPENSIVE. I can justify my geopolitical prejudice toward China, but not any technical prejudice toward the performance of Anytone product. If anybody has Anytone, and they have direct experience that they aren't decent quality or performance, I would like to know it, same as in the case of Yaesu, except I have my own prejudice (bias) on the plus side that's experience based with Yaesu, but they are VERY EXPENSIVE for many amateurs, especially our new life's blood entering the hobby!

    I'll also throw this out there. Financially, with respect to a product like Baofeng, TYT, and/or Wouxun, just as examples, you can get a cheap Digital Baofeng WT for about $30.00, the UV5R for example. Is it Yaesu quality, can you bang it around like a Yaesu product? Noooooo! Is it produced in a county that purposefully gave the whole world COVID-19, steals our US technology, is trying to take over the SouthChina Sea for military advantage, is fighting our ally, India, on it's borders? Sure, I get it...

    But, there are hundreds of thousands of mostly new amateurs that get there start in amateur radio with a cheap Chinese product because it's all they can afford to buy. My perspective is, if they can't afford to buy one of the big three, the Chinese product keeps our hobby growing. Because, God knows, those of us that have 35+ years under our belt aren't going to last forever. We need those newbies! If getting a Chinese product gets them started, until they can afford one of the big three at 15 times the price, so they can learn and mature in the hobby until they're wealthier, I'm fine with them choosing to buy an entry level Chinese product.

    I actually have the Baofeng UV-5R, works fine, sits on the night stand and functions as a scanner. But it receives transmits perfecly fine. It was also CHEAP in price, fifteen times less expensive than my Yaesu FT3R, and probably about only 8 or 9 times less the radio.

    There's a trade off taking place. The amateur radio hobby is not in a position to effect geopolitical currents, our hobby is barely hanging on. Look at all the supply houses that bit the dust over the last ten years alone. That's directly related to our numbers dwindling, we are even losing band to our numbers declining. Many repeaters sit idle day after day.

    I'll leave it to the mostly incompetant Masterminds in government to exact their revenge on the Chinese, and probably in ways that are much more effective than my not buying one of their radios based on my own prejudice against them. But, I'm not so naive as to hold my breath either, waiting for them to advocate for the American people.

    I would rather build the hobby than to take a stand against the Chinese in that way. I remember saying that same thing about Japan, don't you? I now drive a Nissan Pathfinder, all of my radios are Yaesu (Japan), A large percentage of my Ford F150 was made in Asia, and 60% of my wife's GMC is made in Japan or China. Some things we can effect, and some things we just have to do that enrich ourselves, so we get the best bang for our hard earned buck, no matter what the geopolitical cost.

    I'll only be satisfied when we bring ALL manufacturing back to the USA, and pay whatever the increased costs are that result from that. Costs would eventually stabalize, and quality would skyrocket! But, for the here and now...

     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2020
  9. KG0BA

    KG0BA Ham Member QRZ Page

    [​IMG]

    Muybe it will drive down the Yaesu pricing, a little competiton benefits us all with respect to the cost compared to the high costs of the big three.

    I would rather have the Yeasu, by far, but if this gets the newbies into our hobby, I'm fine with it. Let these manufacturers all COMPETE!

    Baofeng = $209.00 US versus $360.00 for the Yaesu FT3R.

    My perception is that Fushion is infinitely easier to program, etc..., and my own prefernce is Fushion (Yaesu), since I've heard so much about the difficulty of coding DMR. But, there's still a lot of DMR out there.


    Specs below are published by Baofeng, if you can believe Chinese Claims, but I don't know that these claims aren't valid. My own Chinese bias with respect to their veracity concerning all things has me skeptical. But, I can't refute their performance claims with any direct experience either.

    I defer to those that are more adept at actually evaluating whether their stated performance specs are any good or bad, I haven't taken the time to fully review them. But, I must admit that, with respect to what specs I have reviewed below, I'm impressed.

    I wouldn't buy the Baofeng DMR, I can afford the Yaesu, and my bias is strongly in favor of Yaesu. The money isn't an object for me at my stage of life. But, for the young new blood that we need to be entering the hobby, the Baofeng price is very tempting, especially if the specs are valid.

    And I quote...


    "The DMR-6X2 uses a loud 1 watt speaker; with adjustable volume options (customizeable in software) to set your preferences to accommodate both indoor and outdoor users.

    The DMR-6X2 case is durable for the most extreme elements. The DMR-6X2 is rated IP54 for water and dust resistance.

    The DMR-6X2 is firmware upgradeable with the free software and firmware update tools from BTECH.

    DMR-6X2 BATTERY LIFE, WEIGHTS, AND DIMENSIONS
    The DMR-6X2 can last for up to 35 hours on a single charge using the 3100mAh battery, and up to 18.5 hours on a single charge using the included 2100mAh battery (2100mAh Battery Not Included in Single Battery Kit)

    The DMR-6X2 is: 5" tall (10.5" with included antenna), 2" wide, and 1.5" deep (2" with belt clip).

    The DMR-6X2 weighs 11.3 oz with the large battery and 10.4 oz

    TECHNICAL DETAILS:
    • Memory Channels: 4,000 channels, Digital Contacts: 200,000, DMR Talk Groups: 10,000
    • Power Output: VHF: 7/5/2.5/1W, UHF: 6/5/2.5/1W
    • Zones: 250 (Allows 250 Channels Per Zone)
    • Adjustable Power Modes: 6/7W, 4W, 2.5W, 1W
    • Modulation: ±5.0KHz at 25KHz, ±2.5KHz at 12.5KHz
    • 4FSK Digital Modulation: 12.5KHz(data)7K60FXD 12.5KHz(data+voice)7K60FXE
    • Sensitivity(12dB SINAD): ≤0.25μV (wideband) ≤0.35μV (narrowband)
    • Digital Sensitivity: 0.3uV/-117.4dBm (BER 5%), 0.7uV/-110dBm (BER 1%)
    GENERAL:
    • Frequency Range: 136-174MHz (V) , 400-480MHz (U)
    • Channel Capacity: 4000 channels
    • Channel Spacing: 25KHz (Wide Band) ,12.5KHz (Narrow Band)
    • Phase-locked Step: 5KHz, 6.25KHz
    • Operating Voltage: 7.4V DC 20%
    • Frequency Stability: 2.5ppm
    • Operating Temperature: -20C~ +55C
    • Size: 129×61×39mm (with battery pack)
    • Weight: 282g (with battery pack, antenna)
    RECEIVER:
    • Sensitivity: (12dB SINAD) ≤0.25μV (WB), ≤0.35μV (NB)
    • Digital Sensitivity: 0.3uV/-117.4dBm (BER 5%); 0.7uV/-110dBm (BER 1%)
    • Adjacent Channel Selectivity: ≥70dB (WB) ≥60dB (NB)
    • Spurious Emission: ≤-57dB (WB) ≤-57dB (NB)
    • Spurious Rejection: ≥70dB (WB) ≥70dB (NB)
    • Blocking: 84db
    • Hum & Noise: ≥45dB (WB) ≥40dB(NB)
    • Audio Distortion: ≤5%
    • Audio Power Output: 1000mW/16Ω
    TRANSMITTER:
    • Power Output VHF: 7/5/2.5/1W, UHF: 6/5/2.5/1W
    • Modulation: 5.0KHz@25KHz (WB) 2.5KHz@12.5KHz (NB) Adjacent Channel Power: ≥70dB (WB) ≥60dB (NB)
    • Hum & Noise: ≥40dB (WB) ≥36dB (NB)
    • Spurious Emission: ≤-36dB (WB) ≤-36dB (NB)
    • 4FSK Digital Modulation: 12.5KHz(data)7K60FXD; 12.5KHz(data+voice)7K60FXE
    • Audio Distortion: ≤5%
    • Error rate: ≤3%"
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2020

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