Another American Hostage Killed.

Discussion in 'Ham Radio Discussions' started by KG4KWW, Jun 19, 2004.

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  1. AC2I

    AC2I Ham Member QRZ Page

    I don't have a lot of time tonight, so this is going to be a short response.
    I'm going to skip over the remarks from people who evidently didn't read my last post.

    1.) I didn't read this post, because if I wanted to be depressed and bored to death by current events, I'd turn on CNN.  What I did do is skim it, and found some things that not only bore everyone else to death as we hear the same stuff day after day, but ALSO make the hobby look like a political talk show.

    2.) The intentions of the original poster may have been different, but it was clear to me that this post and posts just like it are nothing more than a summons to the yayhoos.

    3.) If you wouldn't bring a yayhoo to a business meeting and you wouldn't introduce a yayhoo to your mother, why would anyone want a bunch of angry yayhoos posting in forums where young, new and potential hams are browsing?

    The argument was never about whether or not I sympathize with terrorists or whether I care if they are going to come and bomb America. The argument was that I think this topic is inappropriate for the QRZ.com forums, if for no other reasons, scroll back up to what I just wrote.

    Glen, K9STH:

    QRZ is a business. It's in the best interest of that business to keep these forums free from any kind of blight.

    As you must already know there's a splendid new ham forum (you know which one I'm talking about) and from what I can tell it's some pretty stiff competition for your readership. At the moment, the greatest risk is losing the yayhoos, because the topics on that other forum are well... You know.

    So you can go on and compete with that other site, or you can create an environment that is totally the opposite. And then QRZ will be unique in that it displays an image that all hams could be proud of rather than have to explain to non ham guests that ham radio is a microcosm of the nation, there's wacko looney birds in ham radio too.

    QRZ could then reclaim it's title as the greatest, most inclusive source of knowledge on the Internet.

    K6UEY:
    Topics that are political in nature are taboo in amateur radio. Although you hear it on HF, I don't think I need to remind you of the rules. You passed the exam. Bringing these heated topics into QRZ to get the yayhoos all riled up is creating an environment that's prime to spread these subjects to the air. Yet another reason why this topic is not inappropriate for a different forum, just not this one.

    K3FT:
    I think I pretty much covered your latest reply in what I just wrote. If you want to call me a Troll, that's fine with me. I've been called worse.

    Remember, it takes two to tango. I politely suggested that this topic is inappropriate in a very short reply. You and the others immediately replied with a harsh rebuttal.

    One of you wrote something about you think I am the "concerned father" in that other post. LOL. No, I am not but his post did get me thinking. I don't agree 100%, because I know ham radio is not like he described. But I don't blame him for thinking that it is based on some of the content of the various forums.


    KD4LEI wrote:
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">TOD...

    Quit ducking your head in the sand and see the cold harsh reality for what it is.

    They WANT us D-E-A-D!!

    This COULD possibly be coming to our shores VERY SOON and the philosophy that you carry makes you one of the easiest prey for them to kill.

    My friend...  WAKE UP!! [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    I realize you are frightened. I am more concerned with Amateur radio being taken over by yayhoos than I am worried about people who want me dead. You obviously didn't read my post because all I have said from the beginning was this topic is appropriate for other forums, just not this one.

    The reason: A select few members that are highly opinionated on political subjects will come out of the woodwork. (like they do time after, time after, time) The rest of the QRZ community has ignored this thread as you can see. But the damage will be done, QRZ and our hobby will look bad. And that's all I care about as I find there  is plenty of evidence to suggest the population of good hams is not growing and threads like this don't help.

    And Glen, if that's what this forum is here for, then it doesn't help either.

    So folks, that was my argument. It had nothing whatsoever to do with terrorists, Al Queada, Iraq, airport securty, or beheadings. It had to do mostly with marketing the Amateur radio hobby as one that everyone can enjoy, not just yayhoos.

    My conclusion was this topic and threads like it are inappropriate. And sadly, the evidence is right here in this thread to prove I was right.
     
  2. K6UEY

    K6UEY Ham Member QRZ Page

    Well Mr. K9TOD,I don't know, and will not bother to look it up to see how long you have been operating under the misinformation that politics is not allowed as a subject of discussion. First of all not that it matters but the discussion in question happened on QRZ,which is a site on the Internet,which is NOT part of Amateur Radio.Secondly in Amateur Radio which is governed by the rules and regulations under Part 97 there is no provision for it to be just your personal &quot;HOBBY&quot;as a matter of fact there is nothing saying it is a hobby, Hobby is not mentioned in Part 97 at all,but since you certified you were familiar with part 97 you knew all that before.
    As to the rules,I have been talking politics ,world situations and many other subjects on the air for the last 50 years,and now you are telling me what I can talk about on an Internet forum because it might lead to discussions on the air?? You have to really be kidding me !! Maybe you should contact that CF from the other topic he can seal you up in a bubble with his 2 kids to protect you from the sins of the world.As far as I'm concerned you can stick your head in the sand and block out what is around you, your choice, but you sure as hell are not going to stop the rest of the world from turning.I will keep this comment short,I sure would not want you wasting time having to read complete postings before making comment.......    [​IMG]
     
  3. W5ALT

    W5ALT Ham Member QRZ Page

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K9TOD @ June 21 2004,2302)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">2.) The intentions of the original poster may have been different, but it was clear to me that this post and posts just like it are nothing more than a summons to the yayhoos.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Well, it got you to come and post (and me as well). Therefore, you think we are both &quot;yayhoos&quot;.

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">3.) If you wouldn't bring a yayhoo to a business meeting and you wouldn't introduce a yayhoo to your mother, why would anyone want a bunch of angry yayhoos posting in forums where young, new and potential hams are browsing?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Are you asking for help in determining who are &quot;yayhoos&quot; or are you deciding that on your own? I couldn't find the definition of the word, so since you and I have both replied, we must both be yayhoos? That's OK, because I hate business meetings anyway. And my mother already knows me and no, I wouldn't be afraid to introduce you to her.

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">So folks, that was my argument. It had nothing whatsoever to do with terrorists, Al Queada, Iraq, airport securty, or beheadings. It had to do mostly with marketing the Amateur radio hobby as one that everyone can enjoy, not just yayhoos.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    So, your whole post wasn't even on topic? Well, from one yayhoo to another, thanks.

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">My conclusion was this topic and threads like it are inappropriate. And sadly, the evidence is right here in this thread to prove I was right.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Yes, and you contributed one of the longest posts to this thread without reading all the prior comments. You must be proud!

    73,
     
  4. K0WVM

    K0WVM Ham Member QRZ Page

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K9TOD @ June 21 2004,20<!--emo&amp;[​IMG])</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I realize you are frightened. I am more concerned with Amateur radio being taken over by yayhoos than I am worried about people who want me dead. You obviously didn't read my post because all I have said from the beginning was this topic is appropriate for other forums, just not this one.

    The reason: A select few members that are highly opinionated on political subjects will come out of the woodwork. (like they do time after, time after, time) The rest of the QRZ community has ignored this thread as you can see. But the damage will be done, QRZ and our hobby will look bad. And that's all I care about as I find there  is plenty of evidence to suggest the population of good hams is not growing and threads like this don't help.

    And Glen, if that's what this forum is here for, then it doesn't help either.

    So folks, that was my argument. It had nothing whatsoever to do with terrorists, Al Queada, Iraq, airport securty, or beheadings. It had to do mostly with marketing the Amateur radio hobby as one that everyone can enjoy, not just yayhoos.

    My conclusion was this topic and threads like it are inappropriate. And sadly, the evidence is right here in this thread to prove I was right.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    What makes you think I am afraid of what is coming?  

    I am more ticked off than I am afraid of these subhumans.  

    K9TOD wrote:
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
    You obviously didn't read my post because all I have said from the beginning was this topic is appropriate for other forums, just not this one.
    [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    So you post that you are more concerned about Amateur Radio being taken over by yayhoos.  Really?  I guess your first post wasn't political I take it either?  It certainly got you to respond didn't it?  Hello pot, this is kettle.

    I read your posts TOD and you're ducking and whatnot to get out of the topic YOU also got involved in.  I didn't read your posts?  Interesting...  Let's go through some of the responses you wrote.

    K9TOD wrote:
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I hate to be a party pooper here but I think I speak for the majority of folks here when I say that these political threads are making some of us uncomfortable as we come here to talk about subjects pertaining to amateur radio, not right wing propaganda.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    Nope, TOD you didn't want to get involved in this topic.  Why you're more concerned with more topics being Amateur Radio related, right?  Sure...

    K9TOD wrote:
    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You want a war? Fine. I declare a war on illogical arguments.

    I hope I can clarify my last post by making a correction. Please REPLACE the words &quot;right wing propaganda&quot; with the words &quot;talk like a bunch of drunk, gun-toting rednecks.&quot;[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    Well, nothing there either, I must have not read your posts right?  Oh wait, I must be reading selectively...

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
    I think the topic is still inappropriate and offensive. Now I think it's scary too. I have concerns about what is written here because as we all know that there are young hams, new hams and potential hams viewing these forums. To read topics such as these would give them the wrong idea about what ham radio is about. There are plenty of forums internet-wide where you can discuss how you would like to decapitate the -whoever it is-. And you might want to research the whole story about Nick Berg, who was not in the armed forces.
    [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    Really?  This is just talk and opinions TOD...  And many of these young hams and potential hams who have access to the internet have (I'm sure) seen the beheading video and photos.  What's worse is these young hams or potential hams have seen enough violence on TV or in movies to make beheadings seem no different.  

    TOD you make it sound like these murders are insignificant.  What's more important?
     
  5. K0RGR

    K0RGR Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    I wouldn't mind the topic if we confined the discussion to the topic at hand, instead of using it to attack each other.

    Why is AQ now resorting to high profile murders? Because it gets attention, that's why. Their avowed goal is to get us, that's U.S., into a religious war against all Muslims, a war they expect to win. They're murdering citizens of our allies in order to divide and conquer.

    We're in a very sticky situation with Saudi Arabia. If, indeed, the initial reports that people in the Saudi government assisted these killers proves to be true, then what action do we take? Sending U.S. troops in to clean out Riyadh would likely start the religious war we want to avoid.

    I believe that first of all, we've got to uphold our own principles, regardless of the cost. Yes, I feel badly for the families of the murdered. It would be so easy, and feel so good to take some kind of truly horrific retaliation for these abominations, but we must not. We must do unto others as we want them to do unto us.

    We need to live the words that President Bush pledged after 9/11 - we need to track down all terrorists, wherever they are, and either bring them to justice, or bring justice to them. I know that we currently have covert operations in over 30 countries that are aimed at doing this, and those operations need to be completed.

    We do not need a modern 'crusade' here. Right, wrong, or otherwise, we've taken over Afghanistan and Iraq - we need to make both of those countries shining examples of Islamic democracy. Then will likely we see the Muslim world cast out its own demons. Muslims around the round have condemned these acts, and must be encouraged to continue doing so.

    How long did it take to capture the SLA right here in America years ago? This is a much more difficult task.
     
  6. N8CPA

    N8CPA Ham Member QRZ Page

    TOD, this particular forum of an Amateur Radio website is about anything that affects all of us. So the topic is apropros.

    Tactically, AQ terrorists only see two kinds of people, targets and martyrs. The latter are anyone else who happens to die while they attempt to take out the former, whether sympathetic with the cause or not. That would include YOU and YOURS, simply because you live where you live and irrepsective of what you believe. And they don't worry about kill ratios when they attack. Talk about yayhoos!

    If you don't believe that's the case, I suggest you visit www.doj.gov/aq/trainingmanual. It is a PDF translation of what was found by British law enforcemnt in the same apartment where ricin was found several months ago. I consider it documentary evidence that AQ terrorists are the progeny when jackals mate with swine.

    And you can bet, that once they kidnap a western hostage, that hostage will die unless he/she escapes. And since terrorism is as much about vicariously tormenting hostages' survivors and family members as it is about killing, I think western media should simply quit showing the video tapes released to Al-Jazeera. There should also be a moratorium on showing stateside families pleading for the life of hostages, to deprive the terrorists of their forum. Publication of such pleas only positively reinforces terrorist activity and flatters their primitive egos.
     
  7. KG4KWW

    KG4KWW Banned QRZ Page

    This Just Came Across The News

    <span style='color:red'><span style='font-size:15pt;line-height:100%'>S. Korean hostage beheaded
    Seoul says it will evacuate all its citizens in Iraq by July</span></span>



    [​IMG]

    BAGHDAD, Iraq - The Arab satellite TV network Al-Jazeera reported Tuesday that a South Korean kidnapped in Iraq had been beheaded.
    The network said it had received a videotape indicating that 33-year-old Kim Sun-il had been executed.

    The kidnappers had earlier extended their deadline for his execution, an intermediary said Tuesday. At the same time, the Seoul government said it would evacuate all its citizens working for businesses in Iraq by early July.

    “This is humanitarian issue and we are working on it and we expect good news,” Ahmed al-Ghreiri, an employee of the NKTS security firm, which is acting as an intermediary, told The Associated Press.

    Suspected al-Qaida-linked militants had threatened to kill Kim by early Tuesday if the South Korean government did not cancel its planned deployment of 3,000 troops to Iraq.

    The militants dropped their demand that Seoul pull its troops out of Iraq, a security company president was quoted as saying Tuesday. The Joong Ang Ilbo newspaper's Web site quoted Choi Seung-gap as telling South Korean reporters the abductors had made other demands that were acceptable, but he declined to elaborate for fear of jeopardizing the negotiations.

    &quot;It is highly likely we will see a resolution because in Iraq they have a good impression about South Korea,&quot; said Choi, president of the NKTS security company that provides bodyguards.


    Why with all the high tech goodies the military, cia, mi5 and what other spy agencies are supposed to be working over in IRAQ, are these people being allowed to get away with this? Why are we not finding them?

    Bush owes us some answers.  It appears that Bush is more interested in getting votes than finding hostages and their killers.

    Trust Me, Harry Truman would have found the killers and destroyed them along time ago.

    This is sad. And the sad part is these animals know they will never be caught because, Bush is more concerned about what the public thinks and getting re-elected to do anything about it.

    I hope these scum bags are found and given a dose of their own.
     
  8. K6UEY

    K6UEY Ham Member QRZ Page

    KG4KWW,
    WHY!! did you find it necessary to smear an otherwise perfectly good informational post with your illogical, biased, bigoted,uncalled for rhetoric ? [​IMG]
     
  9. Guest

    Guest Guest

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Why can't we find these people?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    IMHO - they were trained by the best, the CIA, who was trained by the best, the SS, who was trained by the best...
     
  10. Guest

    Guest Guest

    TOD - irrelevant. You say you don't read the posts and then you go ahead and POST things about the posts you say you didn't even read! (AMAZING!) :D No more to you. You won't read it anyway But you extract it and comment on it.. (DOUBLE AmAZING! ) BIG GRIN!

    KWW. 'why can't we find 'em'.../

    The answer is SIMPLE... 1)terrain and logistics.

    The terrain they run and hide is very difficult to observe from the air and VERY difficult to control from the ground in some cases.

    Other cases, they operate in the urban area where ratholes aer everywhere and sympathizers abound who will help them find ratholes to hide in.

    LOGISTICS..

    Tell me.. put 100 Arabs in a line. NOW.. PLEASE.. without any information as to appearance, etc.. YOU TELL me which one is the terrorist and which 99 are innocent?

    Tell me HOW you are going identify a small group or an individual who can (and does) wear the same clothes, speak the same language, have the same culture and mannerisms as the locals WITHOUT some additional data.

    You can't.

    that is what makes terrorists over there so hard to catch and/or kill. They do their dasterdly deed and they scurry back into their ratholes and hide.

    Sympathizers help them, hide them, feed them, clothe them and make alibis for them.

    Absent any methods to 'force' them to talk via pscyhological methods or some kind of physical methods (short of real torture) you aren't going to have much success rooting them out.

    It 'tain't as easy as you think', believe me. If it were, we'd have found the bastards and put a .22 or 9mm round right between the eyes already.

    It takes 'boots onthe ground' hard, tough, 'grunt work' to do it and that' takes time.

    If you think President Bush is 'more interested in votes' than getting these guys.. you are either blind to the reality OR you are unaware of the facts.

    K3FT

    It's NOT like James Bond, 'Man From Uncle', '24' or any of these shows/movies where the hi-tech stuff can ferret out the bad guys and make it all happen in an hour. UH UH.
     
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