And now they want to take part of 2 meters..... (WRC 2023 proposal)

Discussion in 'Ham Radio Discussions' started by NN3W, Jun 11, 2019.

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  1. N3HGB

    N3HGB Ham Member QRZ Page

    Anyone have a link to the meat of the proposal? WHY do they want 2 meters? Just because we hardly use it anymore?
  2. KA2IRQ

    KA2IRQ Ham Member QRZ Page

    Usually this happens because it is adjacent to an existing frequency allocation. But you're correct, we should find out the true reason before jumping to conclusions.
  3. SM0AOM

    SM0AOM Ham Member QRZ Page

    The French input document to the next CEPT preparatory meeting in Prague next week
    with the number Doc. PTA(19)090 contains the following language about 144-146 MHz:


    In accordance with Resolution [NEW AMS APPLICATIONS] (WRC-19), to review studies on spectrum needs, coexistence with radiocommunication services and regulatory measures for the possible introduction of new non-safety aeronautical mobile applications:

    - Spectrum needs for new non-safety aeronautical mobile applications for air to air, ground to air and air to ground communications of manned and unmanned aircraft systems.

    - Studies within the bands already allocated on a primary basis to the mobile except aeronautical mobile service above 146 MHz and up to 23 GHz in order to evaluate the possible revision or deletion of the “except aeronautical” restriction. The following bands are proposed to be studied : 162,0375-174,000 MHz, 862-874 MHz, 8400-8500 MHz and 22-22.21 GHz.

    - Study possible new allocations to the aeronautical mobile service on a primary basis in the following bands: 144-146 MHz, 5000-5010 MHz and 15.4-15.7 GHz, while ensuring the protection of existing services in those bands and, as appropriate, adjacent bands, and not constraining future development of these services."


    "a) that the band 144-146 MHz is allocated to the Amateur and Amateur-Satellite on a primary basis in all Regions and may be considered for possible new allocations to the aeronautical mobile service on a primary basis

    The whole proposal is derived from increasing needs for aeronautical communications, and the high commercial pressure on higher frequencies.

    "Spectrum policies", enacted by most deregulated countries, do not allow "free-loaders" to occupy valuable spectrum space.
    Amateur radio may lose its current exclusive status in 144-146 MHz and be relegated to secondary status.

    N0TZU likes this.
  4. N3HGB

    N3HGB Ham Member QRZ Page

    Buying a new 8.33 KHz radio will triple the frequencies available. That isn't enough?
    I was involved setting up some ground stations for a company I flew for and it is very hard verging on impossible to get your own frequency. Given you can have a range at altitude exceeding 100 miles, you end up listening to a lot of non-relevant chatter.
    It would be nice to have a new allocation with FM and tones/DCS/data for various FBOs and other businesses, but I can't see that driving this big an effort.
  5. N0TZU

    N0TZU Platinum Subscriber Platinum Subscriber QRZ Page

    What are some of the “non-safety” aeronautical services being considered for 2m?
  6. SM0AOM

    SM0AOM Ham Member QRZ Page

    My contact in the Administration that attends the CEPT meetings has promised to come back with more information after next week.

    It does however appear that the proposal is intended to provide more spectrum for datalinks that are not directly related to safety of flight or navigation.

    It may also be related to the fact that 144-146 MHz has an alternative allocation by footnote for aeronautical mobile (OR) in some Region 3 countries.

    N0TZU likes this.
  7. N3HGB

    N3HGB Ham Member QRZ Page

    A bunch of ACARS channels?
    WZ7U likes this.
  8. AC0GT

    AC0GT Ham Member QRZ Page

    Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't most spectrum where Amateur radio is shared the primary users are not voice modes? Seems to me that there's not too much concern of interference because the primary users are things like radar, location beacons, and other high power transmitters where us lowly Amateurs that are limited to 1500 watts, if not restricted further on these shared bands, simply cannot compete. What concerns me is that the aircraft are using power that's comparable to what Amateurs typically use, and modes that Amateurs might not typically use but is available easily for those that care to use them.

    What would the rules be on having Amateurs communicating with aircraft in this proposed shared band? There's already problems of people "bending" the rules and using Amateur radios on bands that they were not certified to use. There's no rules against Amateurs using radios certified for some other part of FCC rules (such as Part 87) under Part 97 rules. What would this shared spectrum mean for manufacturers producing radios that comply with the rules on this band?

    Here's what I suspect is likely to happen if there was a change in the rules that created shared spectrum between aircraft and Amateurs. First there would be a flood of new radio models announced for sale. Pilots looking for new shiny equipment would snap them up out of the promise of avoiding congestion on existing bandwidth. Then the Amateurs will come in to buy these same exact radios and for much the same reason. Then we'd all see people flood in, from both Part 87 and Part 97, to play in this "new" playground primarily out of the novelty of it all.

    Then what? Would Amateurs be kicked out because they interfered with aircraft? Would Amateurs be able to successfully lobby for their spectrum back? Remember that the reason that the band was shared was because of lack of use by Amateurs. The availability of new radios on this band would encourage more activity. What if out of anticipation of this rule change the radio manufacturers started making radios before the rules became finalized, knowing that there is an existing market in licensed Amateurs? I suspect the activity from licensed Amateurs wanting a new shiny radio could kill the adoption by the aircraft users because the promise of new bandwidth free of interference would not come to be.
  9. K8XG

    K8XG XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    quote:" what are possible introduction of new non-safety aeronautical mobile applications?"

    Ultralite, hang gliders, and parachute aeronautical users are already using 2 meters for OPs coms with their crew and friends and just plain fun sometimes. Some with and some without ham licenses. Perhaps this is what they are looking at with 2 meters?
  10. N3HGB

    N3HGB Ham Member QRZ Page

    None of that would happen.
    First off the allocation is for DATA, not FM voice.
    Second, I doubt hams would be allowed on 2 meters at all because of the interference issues. One airplane at 35,000 feet with a 25 watt radio can interfere with or be interfered with by everyone for 100 miles around.
    Third, pilots are not generally thinking about "we need more channels to yack on" issues very often. Ham type just having random conversations is not a huge thing flying. (pilots use 122.75 and 123.45 for this now)
    So it would be a big mess, but not because suddenly every airplane has 2 meter FM voice.
    WD4IGX likes this.

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