"Amateur Radio Emergency Communications Consistenc

Discussion in 'Amateur Radio News' started by K4KB, May 22, 2003.

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  1. N9KPN

    N9KPN Ham Member QRZ Page

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ni0z @ May 27 2003,13:27)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I think this bill is bad. What business does the Federal Government have to fiddle around in private contracts?  [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    The same reason the government has to make car makers put safety equipment on cars (such as seat belts), airlines run safe airplanes (i.e. planes flown by FAA certified pilots, worked on by certified mechanics).  Grocery stores are regulated by government to sell safe foods.  Utilities must also run their supply lines in a safe manner, etc.  If these regulations did not exist, then companies would get by with their interests (lowest dollar cost, high profits) over that of the consumer.  (Very seldom to companies VOLUNTEER to recall an unsafe product.)  

    I see little difference in making the "private" company respond to this regulation in the same manner as they have to respond to building codes.  Can you imagine a new house today without smoke detectors?  This is a regulation a "private" company has to respond to.  Yes, you DO have a contract with a private company but they MUST respond to certain regulations put forth by the government already.

    Don't get me wrong, I think that the government gets involved with way too many things they should not.  But some companies need a kick to get them started in the right direction.
     
  2. KI7DG

    KI7DG XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    Alan NI0Z’s response is interesting! I wonder if he knew that CC&R are
    NON-Negotiable, are not a private contract between parties to be negotiated. Developers
    will attach CC&R to the run with the land in perpetuity and they spell out what you can
    NOT do with your property. In a development of many home sites one would have to
    negotiate with all of the fee owners to change the CC&R’s, you can imagine how that
    would go! A new comer to a Homeowners Association would find a deft ear to making
    changes re antennas. However, someone who has been around awhile is well liked ect
    would stand a better chance of getting the Associations rules changed.

    In well developed cities/communities it is very common now to attach boiler plate
    CC&R’s to the land. Rural areas like the one I live in CC&R’s are a liability for selling
    homes. One has to consider the priorities when house hunting when my wife and I
    purchased our first house 30 years ago we had to go 27 miles out from where we worked
    to find a development with no CC&R’s. A choice we made, however when someone who
    already lives in a development with CC&R and gets a ham license they have a whole
    different choice to make and that generally is where the problems lies. Almost all newer
    developments will have CC&R’s and the older ones with CC&R that are ignored generally
    don’t get enforced thus rendering them mute. When a fellow ham friend was house
    hunting CC&R’s were important and I suggested that when he found a house he liked
    look around and if other house had outdoor antennas chances are the CC&R’s were not
    being enforced and be guided accordingly. I have been a Real Estate Broker for 22 years
    and have done my share of developments so I can’t feel sorry the those looking for houses
    as they have a choice but I do feel sorry for those who own a house with CC&R’s and
    now get a ham license a whole different option of choices.
     
  3. KC0QBV

    KC0QBV Ham Member QRZ Page

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ni0z @ May 27 2003,14:27)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I think this bill is bad. What business does the Federal Government have to fiddle around in private contracts? It's one thing to have Federal preemption of local ordinances etc., but this is bad precedent, IMHO. If you don't like CC&Rs and homeowners associations, don't sign them, or negotiate exemptions between private parties. I shiver thinking about what the Feds think they need to regulate next when it comes to agreements or contracts between private parties...

    Sorry, no vote from here. -Alain, NIØZ.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    I sympathize with your concerns regarding private property rights.  But I believe the issue is a bit more complicated than it first appears.  For example, would you support a restriction upon selling real estate to "mongols" or Jews?  Both restrictions can be found in many older deeds.

    Although property rights are a central concern of our Constitution, they are not the only concern.  Freedom of speech is also important.  When you restrict the means to communicate, you necessarily restrict the substance of the communication as well.  I would argue that this bill is justifiable as it protects a decentralized and largely unregulated forum for speech (a forum that would be especailly valuable at times of crisis).

    Furthermore, the US Supreme Ct. has held that while individuals are free to enter into contracts, the courts cannot, as a state actor, enforce some contracts that offend public policy.  Racially restrictive covenants are one example.  I think it can be argued that while the private contracts are not per se invalid, the court's should be prohibited from enforcing the contract if it imposes an impermissible burden on freedom of speech. (The Constitution governs government action, not private action.  The contract is private, but the court's enforcement is government action).

    As another poster pointed out, most of the CC&Rs (I always think curio and relics first as I have a C&R FFL) are not subject to negotiation.  They run with the land.  While our legal system generally supports freedom to contract, it also disfavors land restrictions imposed by the dead hand from the grave.

    All that said, when my wife and I went house shopping, we specifically instructed our agent to not show us homes in areas with any significant CC&Rs.  Downside is we have to look at the neigbors rusty shed.  Upside is that if I want a nice picket fence in my front yard, I can install one.

    I don't have a better answer than already presented, but I wanted to point out that the issue is more complicated than it has been framed and that the proposed bill is not necessarily inconsistent with current law.

    -derek a. ward
     
    N5PZJ likes this.
  4. KC0QBV

    KC0QBV Ham Member QRZ Page

    I should mention that there is one great thing about areas with strong and active CC&Rs. You can almost always find something that is not covered that, when done, will drive the HOA nuts. They can then make a choice, allow you to do what you really want, or you can continue doing something they hate, but can't stop.

    I can't give too many specifics because you really have to read the particular CC&Rs to find the loophold. One homeowner (in a nice area) in KCMO made the news about 10 years ago. He wanted to paint his house a particular color. The HOA said, "no". So he read the rules. They said the house could be painted in any of the approved colors. So he painted 2' wide bands of alternating approved colors around his home. Guess what happened. They decided that maybe his desired "unaproved" color wasn't so bad after all.

    If you provide me with a copy of your CC&Rs, I will gladly give you some ideas to discuss with a local attorney, if interested.

    derek ward
     
  5. N5XZ

    N5XZ XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    Great article! Our emails (wife and I) went out today and the letters will go out tomorrow.

    BTW, letters to our representatives do not have to come only from hams. Don't ignore other members of the family and friends, relatives, business associates, etc. They can all send letters to their respective representatives. Many will be happy to help with our fight. We can increase our campaign ten fold by doing that!

    Also, don't forget that you can send both emails and snail mails. Most of the representatives have at least two snail mail addresses (local and DC). Note: many emails do not get read, form letters (like the example) are better; non form letters are even better (make up your own); finally, a hand written letter gets the most attention. You can also send it in a non-traditional manner, so that it stands out.

    In my opinion, CC&R's are some of the worst strangleholds endangering and ruining our fine hobby. I have noticed that the hams in areas where CC&R's are most in use are less active than those in other areas. Of course! They cannot put up antennas to operate efficiently and are limited to mobile operation. And when demonstrating your radio to non-hams, especially kids, they aren't nearly as interested in seeing you talk on a local repeater. If you can show them a QSO with another ham in Africa or Asia, they might get a little excited. And it takes a decent (outdoor) antenna to do that easily in most cases.

    So let's get moving! Let's get all the help we can from everybody. (Don't forget that our politicians also like monitary donations, that can't hurt.)

    73,

    Allen N5XZ (just another soldier in the struggle)
     
  6. N8FGV

    N8FGV Ham Member QRZ Page

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
    I think this bill is bad. What business does the Federal Government have to fiddle around in private contracts? It's one thing to have Federal preemption of local ordinances etc., but this is bad precedent, IMHO. If you don't like CC&Rs and homeowners associations, don't sign them, or negotiate exemptions between private parties. I shiver thinking about what the Feds think they need to regulate next when it comes to agreements or contracts between private parties..[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

    The problem with these "private contracts" is that they exist almost everywhere, and it is harder and harder to escape from them. Is it OK that hams are being forced to buy 50 year old houses or to live 30 miles from their jobs in order to put a signal on the air? Why can't a ham buy a new house in a good neighborhood without giving up the privileges that the FCC has granted him? Decades ago real estate covenants were used to keep Blacks and Jews from moving into certain neighborhoods. The Feds put a stop to those "private contracts", so now they are being used to run the hams out of town instead. If we don't stand and fight we will just keep running until we run out of places to hide.

    The FCC has already established that it can override private contracts in the case of satellite TV dishes. We are only asking for the same consideration that the satellite TV industry has received. How do we recruit new hams to increase our numbers when most of the US population now lives in homes where they cannot get on the air after they get their license? The same federal government that issues the licenses now needs to make sure that the new licensees can use their privileges on the air. Even if you yourself live in a radio-friendly neighborhood, what is the value of your license when there are fewer and fewer hams to QSO with anymore? Covenants will kill amateur radio if there is no relief.
     
  7. KB3GVC

    KB3GVC Ham Member QRZ Page

    I sent one to Representative Michael N. Castle of DE about this issue (DE has only one Representative).
     
  8. Guest

    Guest Guest

    KC0QBV, you too? I constantly see that on the first read, lol.
    Email me at dgr8zod@mausershooter.org. We may have something in common [​IMG]

    73's to all..
     
  9. W9WHE

    W9WHE Ham Member QRZ Page

    Try a phone call:

    1) Hard to ignore;
    2) you will know if it gets through;
    3) you can gage interest;
    4) you can ask the rep's position!

    Although you will only get through to a flunky, its better than a e mail that gets an automated (but oh so personal) response.
     
  10. K2PAT

    K2PAT Ham Member QRZ Page

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