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A NEW FT8 with QSO and Rag Chew capabilities called FT8CALL

Discussion in 'Amateur Radio News' started by NN2X, Aug 12, 2018.

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  1. NN2X

    NN2X Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    I contacted the CEO for QRZ and asked to upload the FT8CALL, she has indicated the same, when ADIF accepts than all ok

    About logging, I have been using just FT8 but the freq, is 14.080...Other Hams are doing the same, and this works well for obtaining the QRZ AWARDS...

    C U on the bands, NN2X Tom
     
  2. LA6VQ

    LA6VQ Platinum Subscriber Platinum Subscriber QRZ Page

    He logged it as FT8, which is wrong just like SSB is not PSK and THOR is not OLIVIA. The QSO will not be matched unless his QSO partner uploads with the same error, in which case nobody receives a match for FT8CALL.

    See the response in my previous message (#320).

    I read Jordan's earlier message like he is already in contact with the ADIF Committee to have a formal ADIF definition of FT8CALL.

    73 Frode LA6VQ
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2018
  3. NN2X

    NN2X Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    Yes, other Ham operators are doing the same (Logging QSO for FT8CALL using FT8 option on QRZ), I have confirmed logged in on FT8CALL, using FT8 but at 14.080 (And others Hams have confirmed my input)

    Petty stuff to be honest though...! I am sure QRZ will eventually upload! Cheers, NN2X
     
  4. NO2Y

    NO2Y Ham Member QRZ Page

    I think you're comparing it to other digital modes, though. If you're comparing it with Olivia which decodes at -11db at 30wpm, RTTY - 60wpm at -5db, or PSK31...supposedly 50wpm but probably 30wpm in practice at -10db... then you wonder if it's worth it to cut WPM in third to get -20db and lower.

    I don't see it particularly valuable for emcomm, where you can send forms, etc. via winlink, use ALE, PACTOR, etc. It becomes "part of the toolkit" that never gets utilized because it never encounters a situation where it fulfills a need that the other modes cannot fulfill at a faster rate and more conveniently.

    HOWEVER, if you're looking for a mode it can match where people commonly communicate at 10 wpm but don't have the snr of FT8, then look no further than CW. FT8CALL can't replace the other digital modes, but it can offer an alternative to CW for those not averse to communicating at such a rate of speed in exchange for the SNR ratio it provides.
     
  5. KE0EYJ

    KE0EYJ Ham Member QRZ Page

    I see it as useful for people would need communications of important information in a poor situation... something like the Puerto Rico disaster was, or someone stranded in a remote location.

    FT8Call is a fun toy, but in the end -- that's all these modes are anymore... toys, for MOST of us. Communications in disaster situations has been pretty much taken over by cell technology, anyway. Let's not kid ourselves. Poor countries in remote areas being the exception in terms of equipment, any developed nation needs only throw up a few portable cell towers, or balloons and everyone and their neighbor can use their smartphone to communicate world-wide.

    I will mention that OH8STN called me a "dick" on Facebook for suggesting that people with poor antennas will benefit from this mode. Wow, there sure seems to be some emotion about this.... not sure why I'm being called a dick and a hater for saying that in another forum.

    I had a pretty positive opinion of this mode, but if the people advertising it are calling others "dicks" and "haters" for mentioning any potential negative... geesh.
     
  6. N0AN

    N0AN XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    Yes, that is precisely it. The trade off for sensitivity is throughput. Such low throughput is not worth any distance to me, if I'm looking for a "conversation"

    ..and CW is a LOT more fun that watching FT8CALL send what I already have typed, loaded into a que. ...as it breaks it into multiple stacked 15 sec sequences.

    As I said, an interesting mode, a WIP, but I find it mislabeled as "conversational".

    73, N0AN
     
  7. NN2X

    NN2X Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    I wish Hams would try this first before commenting...Let me explain, if you are using FT8CALL, and you want need a country for DXCC, you can see the "List active" on the left side of the Window, and select that DX country and requet to connect (All over HF of course),

    ANd if you wish to see what your signal is like, enter ALLCALL? and you will get a SNR report from those Ham that are on the band (FT8CALL) which has AUTO feature on...
    It is more than an efficient modulation scheme...It truly is, I think the feature set is as important as the ability to have at QSO, at 10WPM

    Here are the numbers for the digital modes

    Mode SNR Threshold Power Equivalence

    WSPR -27 dB 5 W (Only exchange Signal Report. etc..)

    JT65 -24 dB 10 W (Only exchange Signal Report.etc..)

    FT8 - 24 dB 10W (Only exchange Signal Report. etc..)

    FT8CALL -24dB 10 W @ 10 wpm (Rag Chew)

    Olivia -17 dB 50 W (Rag Chew Mode) / this is for 500 / 8 (Spec say -13, but it can work at -17db, if filters are adjusted) @ 30wpm

    PSK31 -7 dB 500 W (Macro / Some Rag chew) @ 50wpm

    CW -1 dB 2,000 W (Rag Chew)

    RTTY +5 dB 8,000 W (Rag Chew)

    SSB +10 dB 25,000 W (Rag Chew)

    Source: by Dr. Carol F. Milazzo, KP4MD (Interpreting WSPR Data for Other Communication Modes – Aug 2013)
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2018
  8. N0AN

    N0AN XML Subscriber QRZ Page


    I don't know about the potential value of this mode for EMCOMM, but relying on Cell Phones for local emergencies is a disaster waiting to happen. The cell companies typically sell ten times the bandwidth they can support, because use is somewhat randomly distributed (time vs connection requirements). That all goes in the dump when there is a local emergency. Everyone gets on their cell and we get "All circuits are busy" messages from our cell phones.

    There will always be a place for Emergency Comms, whether it be portable repeaters, line of sight with H/Ts, etc. ..Ham Radio does what no cell company can: provide a group of trained ops in difficult situations, with at least a little discipline.

    As far as being called names: the name belongs to the caller, not the called. :)

    73, N0AN
     
  9. KE0EYJ

    KE0EYJ Ham Member QRZ Page

    Oh, I don't know... yeah... it's conversational, but not ragchewable. I have been messing with some scheduled QSO's using DominoEXMicro and Thor Micro. DomEXMicro is the same speed as FT8Call, and it's possible to have a slooow conversation. You just get up and use the toilet, browse the web, or whatever, between sends. Haha. Had a Thor Micro Qso with Hawaii at 4,500 miles, today, and it was painfully slow (at least 2x slower than FT8Call and DominoEXMicro) but we did manage to exchange callsigns and say a few short things.

    I've just begun putting some more serious work into learning CW, this past week. If I can handle it, and stick to it, I'm pretty excited that i"ll one day I'll be out and about with a $15 pixie radio at QRP, making contacts around here in Asia. I jokingly responded to some guy in Siberia about 3,000 miles out by sending my callsign to him at 1w. He heard me, and I got embarrassed/flustered. Had to send him a garbled mess at about 3wpm, as I looked at the printed CW list on the wall, but he got it.

    Should have remembered that I was hooked-up to a 2-el yagi pointed his way.
     
  10. N0AN

    N0AN XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    I agree, the feature set is impressive, that's what makes it somewhat interesting. There are those of us, however, who do not find "conversing" at 10 wpm to be even remotely attractive.

    The key point, and the only reason I have commented, is that FT8CALL is being touted as a "conversational" mode....it is anything but conversational at the current throughput rates. It doesn't matter how rich the feature set is, if communicating with it is tedious.

    Are beacons neat? Yes
    Are Auto-Mode Functions Impressive: Yes
    Is interrogation a neat function?: Yes!

    Is it really "conversational" when a single short sentence has to be broken into several 15 seconds sequences. No, it is not....and no number of impressive features will make it so.

    FT8CALL has impressive elements. It has its uses. Carrying on a "real" conversation just doesn't happen to be one of them....so it should NOT be advocated for on that basis.
     

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