3D2CR - faking the Fox/Hound Ft8 mode?

Discussion in 'The DX Zone' started by M0AGP, Sep 20, 2021.

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  1. K1VSK

    K1VSK Ham Member QRZ Page

    Or trying to get as much $$$$ as he can?
  2. KC9GHA

    KC9GHA Ham Member QRZ Page

    I am one that didn't receive the RR73, but I did notice that the signal was there, then not, and after a few minutes there again at various strengths. Now I'm wondering, if it was possible that Dom sent RR73, but I didn't receive it due to fading. The reason I'm wondering this is as follows:

    - I was in Hound mode, and my 2nd transmission dropped to where he was, at 280, after he gave me my initial signal report.
    - I sent my report, but did not get his reply, so my transmit frequency on subsequent attempts went up to 580. A number of attempts were made at this frequency, unsuccessfully. It wasn't until 4 minutes later that I saw another transmission from him to another station.
    - I have noticed that on the screenshots posted here of the pirate station, the time differential (DT) of the pirate station was 0.1 to 0.2, and Dom's was higher. The station I had gotten the signal report from, and was replying to, had a 0.9 DT. This DT was consistent from this station, and I only saw one signal from the station, so I'm thinking that the chances I was NOT working the pirate are good, as the time differentials are unlikely to change that much. My only hope is that Dom sent the RR73, but fading prevented me from receiving it. I logged the contact with this in mind, noting the lack of the RR73 in the comments.

    Here is the info from my ALL.TXT file:

    210920_235447 18.095 Tx FT8 0 0.0 1852 3D2CR KC9GHA EN51
    210920_235500 18.095 Rx FT8 -14 0.9 280 KC9GHA 3D2CR -05
    210920_235515 18.095 Tx FT8 0 0.0 280 3D2CR KC9GHA R-14
    210920_235545 18.095 Tx FT8 0 0.0 580 3D2CR KC9GHA R-14

  3. N4UFO

    N4UFO Ham Member QRZ Page

    Just as likely he never received your report. That is what happened to me (and others) on several occasions. I saw his signal, but his computer kept sending repeated reports to me because he was not copying my reply.

    210921_111615 7.056 Tx FT8 0 0.0 1014 3D2CR N4UFO EM34
    210921_111630 7.056 Rx FT8 -4 0.8 359 N4UFO 3D2CR -16
    210921_111645 7.056 Tx FT8 0 0.0 359 3D2CR N4UFO R-04
    210921_111700 7.056 Rx FT8 -4 0.8 300 UA9MA RR73; N4UFO <3D2CR> -16
    210921_111715 7.056 Tx FT8 0 0.0 300 3D2CR N4UFO R-04
    210921_111745 7.056 Tx FT8 0 0.0 600 3D2CR N4UFO R-04
    210921_111815 7.056 Tx FT8 0 0.0 600 3D2CR N4UFO R-04
    210921_111830 7.056 Rx FT8 -4 0.8 299 N4UFO 3D2CR -16
    210921_111845 7.056 Tx FT8 0 0.0 299 3D2CR N4UFO R-04
    210921_111900 7.056 Rx FT8 -6 0.8 299 N4UFO 3D2CR -16
    210921_111915 7.056 Tx FT8 0 0.0 299 3D2CR N4UFO R-06

    Fortunately, I tried to work him again the next day and was successful:

    210922_090245 7.056 Tx FT8 0 0.0 999 3D2CR N4UFO EM34
    210922_090300 7.056 Rx FT8 8 0.8 299 JH8FIH RR73; N4UFO <3D2CR> -06
    210922_090315 7.057 Tx FT8 0 0.0 299 3D2CR N4UFO R+08
    210922_090345 7.056 Tx FT8 0 0.0 599 3D2CR N4UFO R+08
    210922_090400 7.056 Rx FT8 -2 0.8 193 N4UFO RR73; W7DEG <3D2CR> -06

    Depends on your personal definition of a QSO as to whether or not it counts as a successful QSO without you copying his RR73, but my recommendation would be to keep working him until you get one. Sometimes chasing DX is as much about butt in chair time as it is antennas and amps. :)

    73 & GL with the chase!

    Kevin N4UFO
  4. KC9GHA

    KC9GHA Ham Member QRZ Page

    Agreed, but wasn't possible in this case. I had other obligations that prevented in-chair time. I did try again over the next day or so, and could see other stations working him, but wasn't hearing him at the times I could get on the radio.
  5. KC9GHA

    KC9GHA Ham Member QRZ Page

    Fortunately, it looks like my assessment was correct - my contact with Dom is present on Clublog.

    As for my personal view on whether this was a good contact, I do give some latitude for situations such as this. We obviously exchanged callsigns, and signal reports, and I noted the lack of the RR73 in the log. As FT8 allows you to see what is happening with the signal at any given time, and the fact that it faded in and out fairly sharply, there's an explanation for the contact being abruptly cut short. I'm not one to blindly call a station if I can't see/hear their signal, and I don't believe in using a remote receiver to assist with making a contact, which would have actually been useful in the Rt. 66 event recently, as I was only 2 stations away from a clean sweep but couldn't hear them well enough to make the contact. To me, doing such is more egregious than accepting this contact as being completed. I believe it's the spirit of the contact that matters, and if both sides operate in good faith then it's good.

    So, for those who didn't receive the RR73, check clublog and you might be pleasantly surprised.
  6. N4UFO

    N4UFO Ham Member QRZ Page

    EVERY one of my 'no RR73' contacts that I made note of WAS in Clublog PLUS one! (Guess I missed noting one.) So good for those that thought they missed out. Too bad it wasn't the same with D60AD yesterday... finally started copying them on 40m and they sent me a report, but then disappeared without an RR73. Then I saw them spotted on 40 CW and when I checked later, 'not in log'. :(

    As for 'what makes a contact', that is not clearly defined in ARRL awards as far as I can tell. I had some lengthy discussions with a few on this regarding satellite contacts. This is a place where the other station might have had their 'QSL!' stepped on and if you try calling again, you are depriving other stations at an attempt to make a contact because the 'airtime' available is defined and limited. I came up with this to explain my views...

    If I am driving down the street and I see you and wave at you, if I can see that you recognize me, did we say 'Hi' even though I didn't see you wave back? Maybe a tree or another vehicle was in the way or I had to turn and look at traffic ahead, etc. If we know it was the other, SAW each other and made a reasonable attempt, then I would say, 'We saw each other.'

    It is at this point I paraphrase the Barney Dinosaur song. 'I heard you... you heard me...' :D

    As always, your mileage may vary, batteries not included, no warranties expressed or implied, not responsible for calculation errors on users part. ;)

    73 and congrats on new ones!

    Kevin N4UFO
  7. KD7MW

    KD7MW XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    I got an RR73, but I am not in the log. Perhaps I worked the pirate. It was a standard contact, not fox/hound. Even after reading this thread, I am still confused about whether 3D2CR was/is running in fox/hound mode or not. What’s the consensus?
  8. KP4SX

    KP4SX Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    From the screen shots shown here I'd say indeed he was but that's not to say he didn't go in and out of that mode.
  9. KD7MW

    KD7MW XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    Thanks. I've confirmed that I'm not in the log. I will live, but may that scurvy pirate contract "The Pox." So... How many Blue-Footed Boobies does it take to take to work a DXpedition...? :D

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