25 APRIL .... the day of the father of the radio : MARCONI

Yes.

Unless(see below)there is a patent (and unless the invention is disclosed publicly without filing), there is no claim of invention.

Yep. That's correct.

Fact.

Not opinion.

Yep.

Welcome to the reality of invention in 2018.

If you ask for my OPINION on the matter, in addition to the facts so posed, well, that's a long conversation.

I am humbled that you consider me a cult leader on patents. That is one of the funniest disses anyone has ever made! I really enjoyed it

Again inventors have two paths: 1) public disclosure of the invention WITHOUT patent filing (in which case the invention is in the public domain); 2) patent filing (preferably before disclosure) and issuance of patent claims to secure the invention. Note there is a year 'grace period' in some countries for the filing requirement.

If you just write it down, make it, and sit on your hands, you are not the inventor. There is no 'first to invent' status anymore. Nope.

Nope. Never ever.

You are a nobody that accomplished nothing. If you don't play by the rules.

So go get a patent That's how the 'inventor game' is played. You and I don't make the rules.

73
Chip W1YW

 

A while back the FCC published a doc titled "A Short HIstory of Radio...", in which they take an annoyingly diplomatic and nationalistic biased approach to the question.

https://transition.fcc.gov/omd/history/radio/documents/short_history.pdf

The preface reads,

"If success has many fathers, then radio is one of the world’s greatest successes. Perhaps one simple way to sort out this multiple parentage is to place those who have been given credit for “fathering” radio into groups."

The groups are divided between "The Scientists" and "The Businessmen". Within the two groups are most of those mentioned in this thread.

Tesla is credited as a Scientist and ONLY with components, ie, "... he invented, among other things, the Tesla coil, an induction coil widely used in radio."

Marconi is described as a Businessman, "this Italian creator spent most of his working life in England where he introduced many of the first uses of wireless telegraphy to European navies."

Lee De Forest, also a businessman, is - " credited with being the “father of American radio.”

----------

IMO anyone that deserves to be called an inventor AND father of radio needs to have accomplished more then just describing a potential wireless device without demonstrating the specific application. Otherwise its just science-fiction.

Is Wah Ming Chang in collaboration with Gene Roddenberry to be credited as the inventor of the cell phone over Marty Cooper and his group at Moto?

73, John, WØPV

 

Well, according to OTHERS here, of course!

After all, they had the....

wait for it..


+++ IDEA! ++++


Inventions are just 'ideas', right?

I mean who needed Robert Goddard? We already HAD Jules Verne...

Excuse me while I tool around on my 'idea' hoverboard from Back to the Future, and 'idea' empathic, thinking robot from Bicentennial Man....

73
from the alleged 'Patent Cult Leader'
W1YW
P.S. I am buying up huge tracks of land near Antelope, Oregon for the PATENT CULT!

 

"...there is no CLAIM of invention."

And therein is your major problem. You want to redefine the term "invention" and tie it inextricably to the patent process. What a narrow view of the invention process if it can only be seen through the eyes of a patent attorney's lackey. I'm sure da Vinci would see it your way and say that since there were no patent offices in his time, he could only be a painter.

It is a waste of time talking to you. From here on, you are talking to yourself.

 

'Claim' is a defined term in invention. It refers to the invention details that the inventor 'claims' are new and novel, for which the inventor wishes to secure a limited-in-time , monopolistic property ownership and protection of that property via country backing. Essentially the 'claims' are the invention(s).

It is a legal term that comes from the notion of the right of ownership. You will see it also commonly used in 'mining claims', 'land claims', and so on.

You are referring to the word 'claim' as an assertion which has not been proven, or verified.

I am using the word 'claim' properly, and in context to the discussion.

It is important that other readers not be misled by your ad hoc and inaccurate portrayals here.

You should thank me for being so accommodating on articulating these issues for you. Your lack of knowledge on these issues is apparently considerable.

There are a number of inventor's sources that will, obviously, replicate my statements. Rather than trying to say bad things about someone, who is trying to inform you of the facts, you may wish to pursue them.

73
Chip W1YW

 

From TheFreeDictionary...

invention
(ɪnˈvɛnʃən) n
1. the act or process of inventing
2. something that is invented
3. (Law) patent law the discovery or production of some new or improved process or machine that is both useful and is not obvious to persons skilled in the particular field
4. creative power or ability; inventive skill
5. euphemistic a fabrication; lie
...
Ref: https://www.thefreedictionary.com/invention

Note:
3. (Law) patent law the discovery or production of some new or improved process or machine that is both useful and is not obvious to persons skilled in the particular field

Where is the word "Claim"??? It is "discovery or production" and not some self-serving "idea" that it must be patented. Only a locked mind would pursue this dead-end path. It is evident that this is the result of the apparent belief that an "edimacated" person can create definitions and fools will believe him.

When one's world is mostly composed of a patent office closet, the views are understandably limited. When it's by choice, greater is the problem and deserved pity.

I was not born in the dark. Idiots are those who think they have all the answers when they don't even know all the questions.

Will there be an attempt to redefine the dictionary???

 

Getting down to basics, what is "to invent"?

invent
(ɪnˈvɛnt) vb
1. to create or devise (new ideas, machines, etc)
...

https://www.thefreedictionary.com/invent

The ultimate authority where it comes to the meaning of words is the dictionary.

 

Unbelievable.

Do you have a friend , who is an inventor, who can explain all this to you? You obviously are unwilling to dig out any inventor's resources on the web....

The word 'claim' is inseparable from 'invention'. That is, there is no invention without claims. CLAIMS are the exposition, through public disclosure, of what is novel and new with the invention. In securing a patent, the claims are what is being requested under the limited ownership, and seeking protection against others from unauthorized use, or making, or offering, or selling, the invention.

An undisclosed 'invention' is not an invention, and has no claims.

An inventor's notebook that does not publicly disclose is nothing more, in modern times, than a doodle pad for puttering around. It is not a record of 'invention' --without the qualifications of an invention.

I thought you said you were done.... aren't you done?

 

“Never argue with a fool. Onlookers may not be able to tell the difference” –Mark Twain

Or, if one prefers a much more ancient source:
Do not answer a fool according to his folly, lest you yourself also be like him. —Proverbs 26:4
Ref: http://biblehub.com/proverbs/26-4.htm

Folly: A mistaken idea
Ref: https://www.thefreedictionary.com/Folly

Again: The ultimate authority where it comes to the meaning of words is the dictionary.

 

This has become a somewhat famous story, which apparently bears repeating.

Many years ago, I asked my dean to let me use a closet to store my (I owned it) modest test equipment , when I was starting out on fractal antennas. I explained what I was doing on fractal antennas, and where I thought it would go (and far it has gone) He said he would get back to me.

Several weeks later, when pressed, his secretary said he had denied my request and that HE had invented fractal antennas....he said that when he was a teenager, the AM antenna broke off of his car, and he replaced it with a bent coat hanger.

And that was a fractal antenna. And he was the 'inventor'.

N-O-T.

The outcome of all this this is that : 1) BU did not have the rights on fractal antennas (no university resources were used); 2) I left and prospered.

I am asked frequently to re-join various universities and have always said no. And since that time, all of my INVENTIONS have made money, many used world wide.

I have benefited greatly by learning about invention and inventors, and strongly urge others to pursue that knowledge-- much easily accessible on the web-- without resorting to their own constructs of how the world is and how it should be.

You may find that the dipsy popular assumptions are not factual, and the truth is both disappointing and wildly and positively astounding. Inventors' journeys are not smooth rides, and only occasionally rewarding.

Hence my great respect for people like Tesla, and Marconi. But I am no 'fan-boy' and will continue to call out the facts. Even if it alludes to fascism, drinking steak blood for dinner, and the nature of invention-claims.

Well, at least our friend here feels he now needs to refer to the bible to, IMO, justify his position on 'invention'. That's a new one on me.

Testing a former student who wished to pursue the rabbinate, let me respond with--

Proverbs 29:9

73
Chip W1YW

 

Again: The ultimate authority where it comes to the meaning of words is the dictionary.

Some prefer the dictionary, some prefer the Bible for ultimate definition and others prefer their own "ingenuity" (with selective choir members) to define what the dictionary/Bible do not include. More folly.

 

Proverbs 29:9

 

"Sometimes Wikipedia gets it right."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractal_antenna

Sometimes???

 

Proverbs 29:11 A fool uttereth all his mind: but a wise man keepeth it in till afterwards.

Herman Melville once wrote that people are often like churches: When a church's doors open after services, people pour out and once they are all out, the church is empty.

Melville was talking about how some are a one-pony-show and once they tell what they know, there's nothing left. And it comes out in a gush with little opportunity to make it a discussion. Ha!

What is really important is what you learn after thinking you know it all.
—Waite Phillips

The only things worth learning are the things you learn after you know it all.
—Harry S. Truman

The biggest idiot you will meet in life will be the person that thinks they know it all.
—Christopher Jones

You won't learn if you think you already know everything.
—Robert Kiyosaki

No man should escape our universities without knowing how little he knows.
—J. Robert Oppenheimer

Watch, listen and learn. You can't know it all yourself. Anyone who thinks they do is destined for mediocrity.
—Donald Trump

 

2 Nephi 25:17

With patents, we are delivered to the promised land.