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144 MHz Threat: Disappointing response from Agentschap Telecom

Discussion in 'Amateur Radio News' started by G4TUT/SK2022, Jul 22, 2019.

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  1. G4TUT/SK2022

    G4TUT/SK2022 Ham Member QRZ Page

    144 MHz Threat: Disappointing response from Agentschap Telecom

    The Netherlands communications regulator, Agentschap Telecom (AT), has given a disappointing response to the call by Dutch radio amateurs for the 144-146 MHz band to be protected

    France has submitted a proposal to CEPT for the ITU WRC-23 conference which could see the key amateur band being allocated to the Aeronautical Mobile Service.

    The Netherland's national society VERON reports:

    "In a first response to the letter, Agentschap Telecom indicates that France's proposal fits in with Dutch frequency policy. The basic principle here is that joint use and shared use of frequency space is encouraged."

    "The NVC (National Preparation Committee) still needs to meet on this to decide on the proposal from France. Agentschap Telecom indicates that it is necessary to take a good look at the actual use and to have insight into the compatibility."

    The VERON report can be read in Google English at
    https://tinyurl.com/NetherlandsVERON


    http://www.southgatearc.org/news/20...pointing-response-from-agentschap-telecom.htm


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  2. SM0AOM

    SM0AOM Ham Member QRZ Page

    This is actually exactly what should be expected.

    Countries that have deregulated their telecom markets, that is, most EU countries, have developed Spectrum Strategies (that may go under different names) that provide the guidelines for national use of spectrum.

    A common approach in such strategies is that they are geared towards the most profitable uses of spectrum.

    Allocation policies try to avoid exclusive assignments of spectrum, especially for users that make intermittent or low-priority use of spectrum.

    Today, amateur radio has among the lowest of priorities in spectrum allocation, as there are unfounded claims of band occupancy and "spectrum needs" in the past.

    The amateur population is ageing and shrinking, at least the active part of it. Band usage is down to a small fraction of what it was, say, 30 or 40 years ago.

    Like it or not, now the regulators are "viewing the hand" of all those claiming that they "need" access to spectrum, and do occupancy studies to find out actual use on their own.

    Previously, if radio amateurs claimed they "needed" a certain amount of spectrum the claims were usually not directly questioned. This reasoning permitted the addition of the "WARC-bands" in 1979.

    This has lead to a general overhaul of assignments for users that do not earn their keep, in most countries only radio/TV broadcasting, public safety (including transportation safety) and mobile broadband can claim allocation of non-shared spectrum space.
    All others have to contend with shared spectrum.

    A very telling example is the spectrum re-shuffle for the Swedish Armed Forces some ten years ago, where they went from 22 000 MHz of almost all exclusive space, to
    9 000 MHz of shared spectrum. All users are supposed to find ways of optimising their spectrum usage.

    How the CEPT spectrum regulators as a whole are going to interpret their respective spectrum strategies remains however to be seen.

    But it seems difficult to force them to make exceptions to their policies just for the sake of amateur radio.
    The days when we "had friends in high places" are, unfortunately, gone.

    73/
    Karl-Arne
    SM0AOM
     
  3. WQ4G

    WQ4G Ham Member QRZ Page

    It is truly sad that EVERY decision made now days is based on money. On how much it costs or how much profit is to be made. I see why it is said that 'money is the root of all evil.'

    Perhaps in your country. But, if I am not mistaken the ranks of Amateurs in the U.S. are either holding their numbers or even increasing in numbers. And, when more of the 'baby boomers' become retired I believe the number of Amateurs in the U.S. will increase because those people, as they retire, will have more time on their hands and looking for something to keep them busy.

    I'm going to go out on a limb here (and hope someone with a Hatchet doesn't chop the limb off) and say that IMO the problem with 2-meters is FT-8 and other digital modes. Seems everyone has gone digital and is spending most of their OTA time working digital modes and not hanging out on 2-meters.

    All I can say is that I hope those who plan to take and use part of the 2-meter Amateur Band are prepared for QRM. Especially if it is a 'shared' situation. Which this brings me to believe that after a period of time the 'shared' portion of the band will eventually be 'unshared' and completely taken from us. Everyone knows how things work. They take a little now. They take a little later. Eventually, they will have taken it all and there will be nothing left.

    Perhaps, in an effort to protest this possible reallocation, we should start a boycott against French Amateurs? Stop answering their CQs and do not reply to calls from French operators. It may not do anything to stop the reallocation - but we can certainly express our objections in more ways than posting to teh Zed.

    Dan KI4AX
     
    KA2FIR likes this.
  4. SM0AOM

    SM0AOM Ham Member QRZ Page

    One problem is that a quite small fraction of the newly minted amateurs actually become active.

    Last time I looked, about 7500 new licences were issued each year in the US, and about half were Technicians.

    I have no statistics of how many that actually get active in the US, but here at the very most 10% do become measurably active.

    There will be a major PR issue to convince the bean-counters and lawyers at the regulators that valuable spectrum space should be allocated to keep retired people busy, and my suspicion is that they would laugh all the way to the bank if confronted to such a proposition.

    This is a quite bad proposal.
    Amateur radio is supposed to further international friendship, and such actions would only serve to further degrade the international image of US radio amateurs.

    French radio amateurs have absolutely no blame for their regulator following the general principles for spectrum allocations in deregulated parts of the world.

    73/
    Karl-Arne
    SM0AOM
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2019
    KA0HCP likes this.
  5. W1YW

    W1YW Ham Member QRZ Page

    Dan,

    I disagree on the money angle. The bottom line is that there are many,many others that want to use spectrum, and even if money was not involved, the problem, as it stands, would still exist.

    What we are REALLY heading towards in spectrum allocations is cognitive radio, where ALE formats test before transmission (TBT) and if nothing is heard, the 'channel' is used. Unfortunately, despite the great value of FT8 and related formats, their overuse has led to a spectacular absence of spectral use on MOST ham bands. This will drive decisions on 'shared spectrum' far faster than anyone previously anticipated in a cognitive radio perspective.

    Spectral loss speculated over the next 20 years will become reality in the next five, because of the profound changes WE have made in our own spectral use( single channels per band; M2M type digital time synced formats) and practical abandonment of same on CW, phone, FM, etc..

    FT8 is wonderful, but overuse equals spectral loss. MO, yours may differ.

    73
    Chip W1YW
     
    WQ4G likes this.
  6. SM0AOM

    SM0AOM Ham Member QRZ Page

    Correction, this number was the net increase, the number of new amateurs should be around around 32 000.

    The attrition rate then seems to be in the order of 26 000 per year, which is quite disturbing.

    One may wonder how many un-reported SK:s can be included in the "hidden statistic".

    I am completely with you in this. Cognitive radio and adaptive formats, both modulation and channel access, are already changing the roadmap. 5G and Internet of Things are critically relying on techniques like this, and on various forms of CDMA and Spread Spectrum modulation together with frequency agility.

    It is ironic that this was predicted 60 years ago by J P Costas, and in his paper "Poission, Shannon and the Radio Amateur", the spectrum allocation policies of amateur radio;
    with "bands" instead of "channels" and no "cast in stone" spectrum planning was presented as an example of efficient spectrum use. Now amateur radio in a way is retrograding, with more and more emphasis on ownership of frequencies, mandated band-plans and extremely narrow-band modes.

    73/
    Karl-Arne
    SM0AOM
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2019
  7. W1YW

    W1YW Ham Member QRZ Page

    Hi Karl,

    I obviously am not advocating the loss of ham bands (except for 3300 MHZ--which is essentially unused). Instead I am warning on what's happening and, given that, the outcome. We need to get OTA and OTA consistently and assiduously, in non digital modes. Or else spectrum loss is , unfortunately, guaranteed.

    73
    Chip W1YW
     
    WQ4G and AD5HR like this.
  8. KT1F

    KT1F Ham Member QRZ Page

    Why does digital / non-digital make a difference?
     
  9. W1YW

    W1YW Ham Member QRZ Page

    FT4 and FT8 are examples of digital modes that are over-used relative to spectral allocations. That is the point.

    In the future we should assume there will be additional digital modes that encompass the same problem.

    Analog modes are not used in a fashion that requires ad-hoc spectral channeling and time/pseudo phase lock. They are spread out across the band, in general.
     
    KA2FIR likes this.
  10. AD5HR

    AD5HR Ham Member QRZ Page

    A good example of this, is the near abandonment of 50.000
    to 50.300 here stateside, during this summer's Es. season.
    90% or of QSO's during the two big VHF contests were using
    only 5 to 10kHz of the band. ( I probably use nearly as much
    bandwidth when operating A.M. at 50.400 by myself) <grin>
     
    KA2FIR likes this.
  11. SM0AOM

    SM0AOM Ham Member QRZ Page

    And that is similar to what the Swiss regulator found when they measured the 50 MHz occupancy a year ago...

    Read recently about a German amateur that traveled 1900 km in Sweden and did have one (1) QSO over the
    2 m repeaters.

    Occupancy has dropped dramatically...

    73/
    Karl-Arne
    SM0AOM
     
  12. KQ0J

    KQ0J Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    Money talks to the Government and the Citizens lose out. Governments have realized that they can usurp authority
    over public and private assets of any kind to Tax *( especially ) regulate, control and sieze.

    You think you really own and control your house and land much less the airwaves that you cant touch? I cant legally
    install a new ceiling fan here without a permit and tax. I cant water my lawn with water from our lake on days the government
    forbids it. You name it and they will tax it, control it or steal it and sell it back to you.

    Same stuff, different industry.
     
    WQ4G likes this.
  13. W1YW

    W1YW Ham Member QRZ Page

    You had some reasonable activity this past weekend, especially on 50.085-50.185 approximately, on SSB and cw. But FT8 continues to steal the thunder, as they say. Look at dxsummit.fi and do a search on 50MHz. 95% FT8.

    I was well on my way to 6M dxcc as recntly as 2017, and heading towards 300 grid squares. All that dried up after 50.313 kicked in. A pity, really. Its hard to appreciate Es without using your ears....
     
    KA2FIR, K8XG, WQ4G and 1 other person like this.
  14. W4XA

    W4XA Ham Member QRZ Page

    It probably won't be "shared" if it does happen. And there will only be QRM until a few "QRM'ers" get charged (federal charges) . Then it'll stop pretty quick.


    Regardless of what some might think, it's not the French Amateurs fault in the least. they have little or no power to prevent this. (and sadly, neither do "we")
     
  15. WQ4G

    WQ4G Ham Member QRZ Page

    I thought I read in the proposal information that the band segment was supposed to be shared....

    Are the French Amateurs opposing the proposal? If not then sadly I must assign them some of the blame. If they do oppose it then I apologize. It's a French proposal... From a historical perspective the French (hams) should be 'up in arms' over this.

    Dan KI4AX
     
    1 person likes this.

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