1.2 GHz high-speed D-STAR in Minnesota

1.2 GHz high-speed D-STAR for emergency communications in Minnesota

Radio Amateurs in Minnesota have been using high speed D-STAR link on 1.2 GHz as part of the Amateur Radio Disaster Data Network.

Just after 9/11/01, some of the 11,000 licensed volunteer Amateur Radio operators in Minnesota decided they could build a radio based data network covering the region.

This network would provide a reliable "last ditch" email and data capability in the event of an emergency that disabled or overloaded normal communications channels. The first phase of the network was built using AX.25 packet radio technology, which has been running to commercial reliability standards since 2002.

In order to meet the needs of the served agencies for modern, easy to use web interface backup volunteer emergency communications, the volunteers have now deployed a new D-STAR 100 kilobit data network.
This technology moves Amateur Radio back to where we belong - advancing the state of the radio art.

The ICOM D-STAR 1.2 GHz Data Repeaters are in secure locations. They support User-to-User connections at 90 kbps and the group use Linux back-end sytems with Citadel mail and conferencing applications and allow multiple served agency data uplinks for application access including the Internet.

Full details at
http://www.14567.org/

D-STAR Digital Yahoo Group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dstar_digital/
To join email: dstar_digital-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

Digital Ham Radio Yahoo Group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/illinoisdigitalham/
To join email: illinoisdigitalham-subscribe@yahoogroups.com






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My main concern is the reliance on the Internet as D-links backbone. I do like the system. But I live in the New Orleans area and cannot understand depending on the internet as a backbone of this system for emergencies. If the internet goes down your out of luck. Unless you have a HF Radio.
73,s
KD5BLZ

 

KD5BLZ:
You have put your finger on the primary drawback with D-STAR, yet one more "Hinternet" system where amateur radio is reduced to a pasrasitic relationship with non-ham communications infrastructure. - As opposed to advancing and developing our ability to communicate via amateur radio, as specified in our charter. ( PART97 )

But they sure do have the hype-bandwagon rolling, don't they? A few D-STAR stations are set up in Minnesota - and this rates a news story here at QRZ?

---{  Whoop De Doo !  }

I think that the folks who have bought into this hype should turn in their tickets, if they are so sure that D-STAR is better than amateur radio.

They can smear all the ham radio lipstick on the hinternet pig they like, and it is still not going to make the internet ham radio.

What the hinternetter folks WILL do though, if allowed to impose their mindless hinternet paradigm upon the hobby is to convert ham radio over into a part of the internet, no longer independent and no longer about advancing and developing the use of radio.

That's why it's the hinternetters who repeatedly try to water down or elimininate PART97 regulations that cover encrypted communications, content restrictions, commercial use, third-party communications, and band segmentation by mode.

If it is part of ham radio, and it sets ham radio apart as something seperate from the internet, then these people will attack it. - Repeatedly.

Given enough time and enough hype, they will kill the hobby.

 

Charles I agree with you. The internet is fun to experiment with but relying on it for emcomm is another issue. We should be building systems that are totally independent of any outside influence because now you are relying on a system that you have no control over. At least keeping it amateur radio we have full control over it.

 

This network would provide a reliable "last ditch" email and data capability in the event of an emergency that disabled or overloaded normal communications channels.

"Last ditch" after phones, cells, or driving and/or walking to the nearest police or fire station is out of the question?  

Wow, talk about a "The Day After" mentality ...

 

Perhaps I don't fully understand the system, but it appears the entire network is designed to be self-contained. The various network services are on the internal network, the internet link is more of a perk than a requirement.

 

I agree that exclusively relying on the Internet site linking for emergency communications is not a good idea. It looks like the Minnesota group is building an internet backbone that is independent of the Internet. In the full details link it looks like they are considering using Motorola's canopy system as their backbone. This does not require connection to the Internet, but does establish an internet. The Motorola canopy system is just one of the RF methods that can be used to accomplish this task.

This looks like a good model for interconnecting sites with out connection to the Internet.

Definition of internet as used in this post.

73,
Mark N5RFX

 

I think the folks who bitch constantly should unplug from the Internet

 

The devil is going to be in the details here. Use of the Motorola equipment is very path-loss dependent. If the system is massively over-designed for day-to-day service it may work when inclement conditions prevail (heavy rain or snow, blowing dust, high winds, etc).

If *not* massively over-designed it will fail when it is needed most. I've been down this road with telephone company microwave in both the 2Ghz and 11Ghz bands. Thankfully the Canopy equipment doesn't operate in the 11Ghz band. That band can be a true mess. But 2Ghz has significant problems as well. While 2Ghz is typically considered to be immune to rain or snow fades that isn't really true. It is usually ignored on telephone systems because other impairments are large enough that the systems are designed with enough loss budget to overcome rain/snow fades. Temperature inversions associated with rain/snow, however, *can* cause significant temporary path loss, especially during inclement weather -- which just happens to be when a system like this will be most needed.

I'm pretty sure you know all this but it isn't as easy as taking two directional antennas during nice weather and aligning them so they work. The sad thing is that you many times don't find out the failure modes till they fail when you really need them working.

tim ab0wr

 

Internet censors should find better things to do.

tim ab0wr

 

Emmcomm is ham radios biggest embarrassment.

Digital freaks should stay on the internet.

 

I think that when I want to be on the internet, I'll sit at my computer, not at my ham radio.

If you want to do the internet via wireless, buy a linksys router, not a Amateur Radio rig.

I think thats the biggest irk-is people are using this stuff for a free or very cheap connection. Sure the radios aren't cheap, but we're trying to adapt Ham Radio to the internet because...why? Because kids are into the internet and its the only way to interest them?

The internet is a powerful tool, in and of itself. Isn't the role of Amateur Radio, at least according to what the ARRL says, "When all else fails?"

Wouldn't "all else" include the internet? Its all fine and good when the sun is shining, the roses are blooming, etc. But when disaster strikes, isn't the idea to go with SIMPLE? How is hooking a laptop to a vehicle into a radio simple? Wouldn't voice communications be more effective?

I guess with this, we have to pack around even more batteries, larger gensets (or vehicles with more spare fuel so batteries can be recharged) and stuff like that. How is this efficent?

I don't personally get it. Sure I type 75WPM because I type a lot daily, but I think in a pinch I wouldn't want to be doing that in an adverse situation when I could push a PTT and likely communicate more effectively.

I don't understand how adding more gear would help. Because the people we serve use the internet? Wow. This reliance on computers is going to bite us someday. And we, the ham population, the "last resort" people, are buying into it too. I thought the whole idea of being there when it hits the fan WAS the fact we use OLD, ARCHAIC, INEFFICENT modes!

Because when disaster strikes, all of the modern stuff usually doesn't work because of lack of power, or because its simply wiped off the map. Thats why we prepare for the worst with portable antennas, stations, and stuff on battery power, right?

This is a step in the wrong direction. If there is enough infrastructure in place for Internet over ham radio to be effective, we could probably eliminate the radio part of it and just use internet wireless spectrum.

I really hope we don't get too reliant on this. We're going to have a major disaster and the internet isn't going to work. And when that happens, all this fancy gear they expect everyone to buy and have on hand will be used just like my FT8800 at home-for voice communications on analog channels.

I'm glad you have the money to pay for it. I surely don't.

This blurring of the line between internet and ham radio means in 10 years we're going to be the internet, not ham radio. I hope enough of us keep the old gear around so when all of that stuff stops working, we can go back to the old way and be able to help out.

Technology is great when it works. It doesn't work very well when the power goes out and the batteries are dead. Sometimes simpler is better. I hope all of these laptop toting internet warriors keep that in mind.

 

I understand what this post is about which is basically an area wide amateur computer network. AND, it is on 2m and above. I believe these guys got it right. ECOMM digital belongs on VHF and above. Nothing wrong with Winlink nodes here either as long as they don't trash repeaters and voice.

For example, during Katrina had this type of network existed between Baton Rouge and New Orleans there could have been a rapid restoral of digital services in Parishes surrounding N.O. for ECOMM.

 

If the internet is working, then the telephone wires are in place; why not simply make a telephone call? If it is not, what use is the system described?

 

The whackers aren’t smart enough to figure that out !!