Discussion in 'Ham Radio Discussions' started by HP1ALX, Jun 2, 2007.

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  1. W3WN

    W3WN Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    Ah, but is the resistance to separating the bureaus at the IARU level or at the REP level? And is it resistance or merely entropy?

    If you look at the IARU Constitution (see IARU Constitution you will see no mention of the QSL bureaus directly. So I remain unconvinced that this is an IARU problem.

    Is it a problem? Definitely. But let's address it where it can be addressed, and not go off on wild goose chases after the wrong people, agencies, and or organizations.

    I am sorry to hear that many National organizations are in poor shape, but like anything else in life, organizations due die off from time to time. There ARE provisions in the IARU Constitution to suspend a member society that is not functioning correctly. I don't know if that will solve the QSL Bureau problem though.

    And... if newer amateur organizations are forming that are now the de facto national organization, and the original national group is falling apart or disappearing, maybe the new group should explore merging with old group and taking over?

    Again, this is a problem. And it can be fixed, one way or another. But fix it where it can be fixed, don't waste energy going to the wrong place to do it!

  2. N2RJ

    N2RJ Ham Member QRZ Page

    The constitution doesn't have to clearly define anything. It merely has to be a guide for general operations.

    However, on the IARU website, they clearly list QSL bureaus. The bureau is clearly an IARU function. Wasn't always that way, but that's how it is now.

    The bottom line is that "the bureau" is still managed by the IARU.

    To go and inform every incoming and outgoing bureau that CU cards should be sent to an alternate bureau instead of the REP bureau, while the IARU only lists REP will only lead to mass confusion. It is much better when a unified voice spells out where to send the cards.

    I can tell you from first hand knowledge that is not going to happen, unless the old society truly wants to give up its IARU position as the official member society for that country.

    Well, since the official route will be changed, the international ham community will have a clear direction on where to send their outgoing cards.

    The USA bureau works, and it works quite well. One reason it does is because we are officially divided by call districts, and every district has its own bureau, and receives its incoming cards directly. I don't see why other countries can't follow the same model.

    That's good, but not done for many reasons. First and foremost is that many individuals that form "breakaway" groups don't want to be associated with the old group. There is also a fear that things will break down again if they are merged with the old group, and that the old leaders will come back in power and just leave things to die. It will also probably mean that the terms and conditions of the old club will have to apply. None of the above is acceptable.
  3. W3WN

    W3WN Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    Ah, but therein lies the logical flaw.

    The IARU doesn't "run" the bureau system. It never has. It doesn't claim to. So it has no sway over how the member societies handle their incoming and/or outgoing bureaus.

    Listing the known bureaus on the web site does not neccesarily mean anything.

    Or to put it another way... AC6V, amongst many others, also lists known QSL bureaus. Does this imply that he runs the bureaus since he lists them?
  4. N2RJ

    N2RJ Ham Member QRZ Page

    While it is true that the IARU doesn't "run" the bureau, the word of the IARU trumps all others when it comes to "where to send the cards."

    In other words, if the IARU sez so, it must be true.

    So it stands to reason that the IARU must be in agreement for everything to work. A DX QSL bureau is unlikely to trust what they see as a random group of hams trying to hijack a whole bunch of QSLs.
  5. CU2JT

    CU2JT Ham Member QRZ Page

    OK, a last comment. When we send out QSL cards from the CU2 outgoing bureau, we run a computer program that automatically updates the QSL bureau addresses as listed in the IARU QSL bureau list. We do not question whether this is a "national" bureau or some pirate bureau. If it is in the IARU list, we trust it.

    I happen to be in charge of the CU2 outgoing QSL bureau so I know.

    Hence, being on the IARU list is essential for us to have the QSL service working for our members. At present, it does not. And, I have still not seen any reasonable argument why IARU not should put our QSL bureau on their list.
  6. HP1ALX

    HP1ALX Ham Member QRZ Page

    Dear Sir: Thank you very much for your comments. But, what HP1IBF said where his comments not mine. I mentioned and continue to say it that the LRPA is keeping the QSL letters that came from the different bureaus of the world, and as you know are only sent to the bureaus recognized by IARU, because they only recognized one club in each country, regardless if that club is reliable or not. I sent various letters to the HQ of IARU, and they are not interested in it, and they preferred to recognized a so called club, at a national level, that only dressed up with a suit when they need to take a photograph, but that never ever will listen to you in any radio frequency.

    IARU, indeed, is the one that decides who will be their representation, and since that are ok with all the stories that the representative of LRPA tell them, they simply shut up and give the appearence that all is functioning perfectly well.

    What you read about Mr. Salinas, was an extract of a letter that I sent IARU several months ago. And it was to show them that the members of LPRA are nothing and did not have qualified persons, so they have to use other persons that are not members of LPRA. If you want to cover the sun with a hand you can do it, and if you do not want to understand this message is irrelevant. I am not mixing anything, I continue to demand that my and all of the other members of Radio Club de Panama, QSL cards, reach the destinataries, and not to retain the mail, which you know is a violation of the international mail laws.

    I have not begin with any false premise, and I don`t have to verify any data, since I am clear and sure of my allegations. For this reason, and since I do not think you want to understand our situation in Panama, I considered this the end of your rhetoric and mine, and the mixing you made of what HP1IBF, and what I said.

    With all the respect you deserved, thank you, and I will leave to rest the QRZ forum.
  7. HP1IBF

    HP1IBF Ham Member QRZ Page

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