Discussion in 'Ham Radio Discussions' started by HP1ALX, Jun 2, 2007.

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  1. HP1ALX

    HP1ALX Ham Member QRZ Page

    Dear friend,
    I understand very well that you said, but please undersand that our members, no is only me, is all our members that have many activities in the band, and you know perfectly that using a QSL Manager for direct QSL, this action affect the pocket of our corresponsal (the DX Station). Everybody prefer send via Bureau. And why the LPRA do not release ours Radio Club de Panama QSL?
    Thank very much for your support.
  2. N2RJ

    N2RJ Ham Member QRZ Page

    I agree, but many managers are OK with handling cards via the bureau.

    However, ideally you should get your bureau fixed, but in the meantime a manager could help out.
  3. N2RJ

    N2RJ Ham Member QRZ Page

    That isn't necessarily true.

    A new club cannot, for example, come and take away the QSL bureau management from the established national IARU member society, even if it is inactive or falling apart.

    Such is the situation we have in Trinidad right now. Many hams, for whatever reason, have dropped out of TTARS and joined a new club called the Trinidad and Tobago Amateur Radio League (TTARL). TTARL is VERY active and a lot of hams are flocking to them as a result. They are picking up the ball and kicking it all over the field where TTARS didn't. Allegedly this is because TTARL has huge financial backing, while TTARS has little to none.

    TTARS is now a mere skeleton of what it was, not like it needed help from TTARL anyway to get there because a lot of hams were losing interest and dropping out one by one due to various issues including health.

    As far as I understand, TTARL have tried to join the IARU as the member society representing 9Y and failed, because TTARS refused to give up their spot.

    One of the former TTARS presidents, Noel Donawa 9Y4NED is the current treasurer of IARU-R2 as well. I'm not accusing the man, but I'm sure he's not giving his blessing to "the league" taking over.

    So while it is not an appointment, it is difficult to change the representative society unless it is totally and utterly dissolved. Probably not the way official IARU rules have it, but that's definitely how it is in practice.
  4. HP1ALX

    HP1ALX Ham Member QRZ Page

    Dear, dear ham radio,
    I am very extremely surprised by your asseverate. If you take a trip in the IARU WEB, you can surprise and I am sure that you change your ideas.
    ¿Who institution nominate the QSL Bureau in all the world? The IARU, is the same institution that nominate the representative in all country, ¿will you please observe in the IARU WEB the IARU QSL BUREAU? I can not understand why you said, nobody can obligate that I am enroll in one or other club, my organization as RADIO CLUB DE PANAMA is independent from the personal interest of the people LPRA and if the LPRA do not recognize our club as a Radio Club in Panama, why do not back our QSL? ¿Why keep in a house closet? ¿Why keep in the trunk of a car?
    ¿Why IARU keep silence if I send multiples reportin of the bad action of LPRA? ¿Why LPRA do not present a invoice for the incomming QSL Service? The only reason is a personal and hidden motives of envy.
    The answer at your question is not my friend, we do not have any National Organization in Panama. I am a meber of the RADIO CLUB DE PANAMA, and PANAMA CANAL AMATERUR RADIO ASSOCIATION. The other club is LIGA PANAMEÑA DE RADIO AFICIONADOS that have only a active club in other province, no club in Panama City and not meeting 10 years ago.
    They have Liga Radio Nacional support by IARU, however, please take me attention, ¿Do you know what is a MONITORING SYSTEM? Please read what I said to the IARU in my last letter.

    Finally, I invite you to study this matter of the QSL BUREAU, for it to be properly managed as a representation of the IARU, as the same way as you have a representation of the SISTEMA DE MONITOREO (Monitoring System), by a member of Radio Club de Panama and Panama Canal Amateur Radio Association (Asociación de Radio Aficionados del Canal de Panamá), who works with much enthusiasm in favor of the Panamanian and world radio amateurs, and he is not a member of the LPRA. (I am a QSL Bureau Manager of this two clubs) The work performed by Mr. Elio Salinas as responsible of the SISTEMA DE MONITOREO in Panama, is to be commended and he does it because the LPRA, do not have anyone, since as I have told you many times, this is a club that does not meet, nor function, and is not properly registered.
  5. HP1IBF

    HP1IBF Ham Member QRZ Page

    This is a very, very serious matter that affects amateur radio growth and preservation in our country and has been brought to the attention of IARU many, many times, with no results.
    The IARU, organized by amateur radio for amateur radio, is missing the part that to effectively promote your and our activity in the world, requires to be aware that the members society truly represents their country amateur radio community.  If not, then what is the purpose of the IARU.
    Mr. Fred Laun – K3ZO- Editor of the IARU Bulletin  conceded that there are some organizations in the IARU that long ago lost any representation of amateur radio interest in their country.  Also recognized that there are other organizations that effectively has assumed that role in the country, not only in the matter of QSL’s but in more important matters as the exchange of information between amateur community and, most important, between the amateurs community and local authorities. ¨
    Panama's case is exactly the same as Trinidad and Tobago's. Is a matter of influences.
    Its urgent that the IARU revise its policy, as its loosing creditability and respect very fast, at least in our country. Things that IARU needs to effectively perform its duties. Just loosing one will be the beginning of loosing them all.
  6. W3WN

    W3WN Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    HP1ALX & HP1IBF:


    With all due respect... yes, I'd say credibility is an issue here.

    First, I know K3ZO, and this is the first I've ever heard of him being the editor of the "IARU Bulletin." A quick Google search only shows a handful of references to it, usually as news items on the ARRL web page. Now there is an IARU e-newsletter (which I subscribe to) but Fred is not the editor of it.

    Second, again with all due respect, the IARU doesn't appoint it's member societies. They apply for membership. So I don't understand how you can demand (pretty much just on your say-so) that they "throw out" one member society and "appoint" another in their place. But that is an issue you need to take up with the IARU HQ staff; kvetching and moaning here will do no good.

    Third, I don't have a clue as to why you're brining up Mr. Salinas or which organizations he does or does not belong to; nor what that has to do with anything here. And since neither of you has ever mentioned a word about this to me, why are you berating me over the monitoring system and what you claim you've said many times before? Making statements like that also strain credibility... I think you have me mixed up with someone else!

    And to be perfectly honest, this sounds a lot like the rhetoric during the H8A debacle a few years ago. I can recall all sorts of emails on several DX reflectors calling those operators all sorts of nasty things, demanding they be thrown in jail, out of the country, off the air, have their licenses permanently cancelled forever and so on... all because they applied for, and received, a 1x1 call that no one else had done. And any arguments made to the contrary were met with similar comments complaining that because we disagreed with you, we couldn't possibly know anything about the situation so shut up. Let's not even discuss the on-air antics...

    And come to think of it, this isn't the first time I've come across a claim on this discussion system that a certain National Society was, in effect, just another radio club and had no business claiming that it was the National Society. Interesting.

    Gentlemen, the bottom line is that you are arguing from a false premise on the make up the IARU member societies. I think you need to recheck your data.
  7. CU2JT

    CU2JT Ham Member QRZ Page

    Define national. I am a member of ARA, Associação de Radioamadores dos Açores. In a sense, you might call that a national association.

    The Azores is a separate DXCC entity just as e.g. US Virgin Islands or Puerto Rico and we are enjoying the same independence and self gouvernment. Indeed, the Azores is a Portuguese province but so was Mocambique, Angola and all the other Provincias Ultramarinas de Portugal.

    If you look at the list of QSL bureaus in the IARU web site (http://www.iaru.org/iaruqsl.html) you will find that many countries, USA included, have several QSL bureaus.

    So, the question remains: If e.g. CU2 wants to run their own QSL bureau, why do not IARU want to put it on the list and why don't they even bother to reply to such request ? It would be great for REP not to have to bother with all the CU2 cards, it would be great for the CU2 guys and it would be great for all those, who are waiting for QSL cards from CU2. Who is the looser ?
  8. W3WN

    W3WN Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    Define National? Are you kidding me? What are we, a bunch of lawyers splitting hairs?

    The Azores are part of Portugal (even if they are recognized by the DXCC as a separate entity for awards purposes). Therefore, would not your national organization be that of the entire nation of Portugal -- REP I believe you said?

    As far as different QSL bureaus in different areas or regions go... c'mon. Let's not get ridiculous. I'm not going to waste everyone's time writing a four page dissertation on how incoming QSL cards get distributed, and what that has to do with how your national organization is organized is really getting off track here.

    Or maybe I should. You guys seem to think that the IARU has some magic control over the distribution of incoming QSL cards. The reality is that the outgoing QSL bureau in each country determines how to mail or transport cards to the incoming bureaus in other countries; they don't go to some magic central sorting facility. Nor do they "appoint" a QSL bureau. List them? Sure. So do many other organizations. But "appoint" them? What ever gave you guys that notion?

    So if you want CU2 cards to go direct to the CU2 incoming bureau -- which, I agree completely, makes a lot more sense -- you need to talk to the other outgoing bureaus. They probably think that all cards to all Portugese calls goes to the main REP facility and are distributed from there, as is done in many other countries and entities.

    But frankly, this whole thread is starting to get silly. I'm truly sorry you guys appear to be having problems with your cards, but you're kvetching at the wrong people!
  9. N2RJ

    N2RJ Ham Member QRZ Page

    Actually, Gary raises a very valid point.

    The list of QSL bureaus is published by the IARU. It is based on information supplied by each member society.

    The USA has a bureau for each call district, and has separate bureaus for other areas. This makes a lot of sense because logistically it is better if each area sorts and distributes their own cards. It distributes the load.

    I do think it makes sense for Azores to get its own QSL bureau. If not, then some sort of means should be made for the Portuguese national society to distribute the cards to Azores hams on a regular basis. If it means a paid subscription to the bureau, or supplying SASEs like we do in US bureaus then that would make sense.

    But I do get the sense that there is some resistance from the IARU to separate Azores and Portugal.

    Like I mentioned with our situation in Trinidad, in many countries the national societies are basically falling apart, and other clubs have formed and are much stronger, yet the IARU will not give up the QSL bureau assignment.

    Something has to be done about this.
  10. CU2JT

    CU2JT Ham Member QRZ Page

    I rest my case. We tried but did not succeed. I use LoTW.
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