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Using The International Phonetic Alphabet

Discussion in 'Amateur Radio News' started by WX4W, Mar 6, 2019.

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  1. W8LV

    W8LV Ham Member QRZ Page

    "ZED" in Canada as well...
     
  2. KS3O

    KS3O XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    I find it interesting that the OP states it is an international standard. Funny, I have contested against many "experienced" hams from all over the world, and hardly any of them solely use the "standard" phonetic alphabet. Personally, I start with the standard phonetics, and switch to other common words if the person on the other end doesn't understand or is struggling. It's very common to get a mix of standard and other phonetics mixed together by many international hams. For instance, I would call W3AO Whiskey - three-Alpha - Oscar, where some of the international community (and very old experienced local hams) would call it (Whiskey Three Atlantic Ocean). I know there are some armchair warriors who denigrate those who don't use the "correct" phonetic. I've even seen youtube videos dedicated to bashing a particular ham for using an "illegal" phonetic. Oh well to each their own. It is interesting on dx contests when I start with the accepted words and have to switch it up after 4 or 5 attempts to get the person on the other end to understand me while using the standard alphabet.

    Scott Sauvageot
    KS3O (Kilo Sierra Three Oscar).
     
    KR3DX, RZ1O and K3SZ like this.
  3. 2E0IIT

    2E0IIT Ham Member QRZ Page

    It is important to stick to the correct enunciation, saying each syllable clearly, this guidance was designed by US researchers in the 1950's to maximise international intelligibility.
     
  4. 2E0IIT

    2E0IIT Ham Member QRZ Page

    Strange, in the UK it was a formal requirement to only use the (American devised) NATO Phonetic Alphabet - which was chosen to facilitate communication especially between international pilots when not everyone was a native speaker. Only in recent years has it changed to a "recommendation" to use the NATO system. In my limited experience I have already encountered non-standard phonetics leading to completely incorrect transcription of a maidenhead locator.
     
    W8LV likes this.
  5. N0TZU

    N0TZU Platinum Subscriber Platinum Subscriber QRZ Page

    Which is excellent but it isn't always the same thing as intelligibility on a poor HF channel with QRM/QRN.

    My hypothesis about why that is:

    A) Higher voice frequencies tend be more easily copied than lower, hence the desire for "punchy" audio by DXers and contesters. For phonetics it tends to be the sharp consonants in a word, with their higher frequency content, that are more easily understood than the softer consonants under those conditions. Take Uniform vs. United. The "t" and "d" in united is sharper than the "f" and "m" in Uniform.

    B) Longer words tend be more effective than short words, because there is more of a pattern for the receiving op to recognize. This is especially true with fading, QRM, or static crashes where a syllable might be missed, rendering a short word unreadable but a long word could still be understood. Take Golf vs. Germany or Mike vs. Mexico or Alpha vs. America.

    Of course sometimes non-standard phonetics also don't work well or are confusing, which simply reinforces the fact that nothing works 100% under poor conditions!
     
    UT7UX, KR3DX, KV6O and 2 others like this.
  6. KF4HAY

    KF4HAY Ham Member QRZ Page

    This horse ain't dead yet ,, .......
     
    W8LV and W9FL like this.
  7. WA4KFZ

    WA4KFZ Ham Member QRZ Page

    Several years ago, while visiting the ARRL headquarters, I had the privilege of being able to operate W1AW for a few hours. It was the only time in my life that I was the source of the pileup!

    One thing I observed was how confusing it was to have some hams use the NATO alphabet while others used some other "cute" adaptation. After several hours, it became fatiguing to correctly copy call signs for the log. Using a *consistent* alphabet would have helped tremendously.

    The phonetic alphabet is a tool; use the correct tool for the job at hand. If you're engaged in emergency communications or public service events, then use the NATO alphabet. If contesters and rag chewers want to come up with their own phonetic alphabet, then have at it.
     
  8. KF4HAY

    KF4HAY Ham Member QRZ Page

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    This horse ain't going to fly and neither is common sense ....?? I've heard it over and over , ,,, it's fine for every day normal contacts or ragchew , but for dx'ing , I've heard heard them say repeat , repeat , , again again, to cutesy phonetics, , but once they use standard phonetics , the dx says roger roger, 7s's, ,, but to each his own and surely they will see sooner or later what works, ,,, maybe , don't matter , as they say it's just a hobby, , even during emergency communications , so , good luck ...... KF4HAY

    and it's Kwe Bec , even people in Quebec call it KweBec ,,, just like Louisville , Ky , some call it Louville, some Louaaville , some Louis ville, , but if you live there or go there you can call it what you want , people know what you mean , right ????
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2019
  9. NG0Z

    NG0Z Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    Obviously, there are no requirements and I don't think the article said that. It is frustrating, at least for me, to hear other operators inventing their own, non-standard phonetic alphabet, and then wonder why they have to give their callsign five times to make the contact. I think the point of the article is that using a standard, consistent phonetic alphabet better serves the core purpose of using phonetics in the first place and furthermore is, and I agree, a mark of a "professional" amateur, no pun intended.
     
    W9FL, KF4HAY, KR3DX and 1 other person like this.
  10. RZ1O

    RZ1O Ham Member QRZ Page

    I guess, already a hundred times I finished a QSO when I was barely heard, after four time RZ1Oscar for the fifth time, saying, 'Ontario'! And at the other side: "Aaah, Ontario, RZ1Ontario, u're in the log!" I don't think, I say (pronounce) 'Oscar' wrong! Then how we joke 'I give a tooth' - it helps, comrades! Variations of letters-words help! And let Your NATO allow me to say RussiaZ1O although at times, because for the sake of the letter 'Russia' I've changed my ex perfect callsign UA1OCW! The same theme with the Italians, French, the Japanese etc )) And yet - the letters Golf & Hotel, generally, about anything! They're dim muted! Compare with Germany & Henry is just heaven and earth! If I kept saying 'Oscar, Oscar', I would definitely have lost a dozen slots ;) Actually, there are 2-3 words to each letter in the practical use, we, HAMs, came up with ourselves the additional ones, because the official ones sometimes do not help.. Let only official Phonetic Alphabet only the pilots all over the world (and Your NATO) use! We all in our countries are passing exams and should know and answer the basic ITU Phonetic Alphabet but sometimes allow ourseves to use those which help us in our opinion at that exact moment!
    73! de RZ1O (sorry for the grammar
    p.s. and, you yourself, finally figure out how to pronounce 'Quebec'!))) (I'm kidding)
     
    KV6O, K1ZBT, KR3DX and 1 other person like this.
  11. KR3DX

    KR3DX Ham Member QRZ Page


    I agree on all of those points, and I would take the time zone thing a step farther: The whole world should use UTC in the 24 hour format as the ONLY time zone, no "local" time zones! Simple. Adjust your daily schedule accordingly. The notion that it is noon when the sun is at its apogee is archaic, it stems from ancient times when the sun was the ONLY way to tell time,there is no need for this in today's world. Realistically though, NONE of these things are going to happen for a LONG, LONG time. People are resistant to change, "it's always been done this way" is their rationale.
     
    W8LV and K1ZBT like this.
  12. WJ4U

    WJ4U Subscriber QRZ Page

  13. KF4HAY

    KF4HAY Ham Member QRZ Page

     
  14. K1ZBT

    K1ZBT Subscriber QRZ Page

    That was fun!
     
  15. UT7UX

    UT7UX Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    But still is somewhat difficult to understand for the uninitiated. :)
     

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