A NEW FT8 with QSO and Rag Chew capabilities called FT8CALL

Many CW operators work at 10w pm, but if you are trying to work DXCC, at these band conditions, the -24db ability to decode becomes real attractive

I guess it comes down to working local, or DX at the price tag of 10WPM...

For those who have modest set up and want to work DX, well the choice is easy (While all having a modest QSO at 10wpm)

FYI, In QRZ there was poll conducted indicating more than 70% of Ham operators have dipoles at 100 watts...(Hence today, FT8 has 70,000 + active while others modes are at hundreds) (This is using PSK REPORTER)

Cheers, NN2X

 

FEW CW operators do less than --20-- WPM. The point is its very different when comparing an engage brain deciphering at 10 WPM CW to a glancing eye catching the characters at 10 WPM on a digital mode display . One is moronically slow, the other is compatible with patience.

 

The thing is, DX operators seldom want to talk to you....much less spend lots of time talking to you at 10 wpm. They want callsign, location and signal report. That's already offered by FT8. So, to claim this method is a great improvement for DX is a stretch.

It's a possible alternative for CW...especially among those with compromise antennas

 

One key note I forgot, and should have early on,

I use Google Translator, This is amazing tool, If I am working at fellow in Russia or any other foreign country, I use this translation tool, let me tell you, if you speak in their language, look out, it is amazing


This I use all the time, when using any digital modes,..! Cheers

 

OH8STN's mind does not agree with reality and he tends to be suspicious of other's motivations. He's the only operator I know who purposely hides his last name. Just look at his website, where he wants haters of FT8CALL to be called out. Really? And look at what he called you on Facebook for a factual comment. That is not normal nor acceptable social behavior. Fact is, just on this forum alone, the vast majority of people support FT8CALL (except for the chosen frequencies, which will be addressed in the near future.) People have a right to agree and disagree without fear of reprisal. Unfortunately, this individual displays many of the hallmark symptoms of paranoid schizophrenia. Let others judge him for what he writes and posts. I wish him well.

 

The tool is in its infancy and will likely evolve before a general release. One thing to note is that the description I've used in the FT8Call documentation is:

The idea with FT8Call is to take the robustness of FT8 mode and layer on a messaging and network protocol for weak signal communication on HF with a keyboard-to-keyboard interface.

Conversation isn't the primary purpose. Communication is. Those two words are subtly different and there's a reason I choose communication. Communication is a means of connecting people.

Many ops like the sensitivity of FT8, but are looking to be able to send a bit more than a minimal QSO. FT8Call offers that to them. Should they stop because YOU get everything you need from FT8. No.

Ragchewing is possible, very slowly. But, I've actually seen people ragchewing on the mode. Great. That works for them if they can stand the speed. Should they stop communicating because YOU can't stand the speed. No.

We've had SOTA operators beaconing from a mountaintop with FT8Call and snagging contacts with it AND cw. Another tool in the toolboxHere's my point...

If you're interested in trying it out and finding a usecase for yourself, please do. And if it doesn't work for you, no worries. Feel free to go back to your CW, SSB, RTTY, contacts without admonishment. But, please don't put others down because they enjoy using FT8Call and have found a usecase for themselves.

 

Excellent summary, thanks Jordan!

 

I think of it like this...

I live in South Korea (HL1ZIX). If there were an emegency, any mode that lets me send 10wpm outside of the country to other ops (without endlessly calling for hours), after throwing a cheap vertical or a dipole up in a tree in a likely compromised situation, at low watts, is very cool.

If I climbed a small mountain near home, I bet I could be received stateside. My parents are not hams, but the thought that I could theoretically exchange a daily short paragraph update with them in Iowa, from Korea during dangerous times, is mindboggling.

Fantasy, but a fun one to see potentially realized.

My family would GLADLY wait for 10wpm, if it meant comms vs no comms.

 

I think you're jumping the shark a bit here.

I've seen every comment in this thread at least once and I don't recall a single comment from someone saying people shouldn't use the mode or putting down anyone who does. If anything, I've seen fans putting down people who use other modes - not vice versa

 

Jordan...I remember when FT8 came out, there was many Ham operators who were against that mode (FT8). As we know today it is by for the most used. (70,000 at this hour while other modes is in the hundreds)

FT8CALL is second place most of the time. (Based on PSKReporter).

This is a gift!

You would think a Thank you would be more of the comments..

Well, let me state:

I thank you for take the time out for creating this mode (FT8CALL). And it is free!



Cheers

NN2X, Tom

 

What I find particularly strange is that he's calling out Neil for something he's said on Facebook For those of you who don't know, Neil is one of the people who runs the FT8 Facebook community. Calling him a hater for his honest opinions is just ridiculous

I won't comment on his mental state or diagnosis. I think some hams have problems differentiating between discussion and vitriol. If you're not saying something is the greatest thing since sliced bread and are instead objectively discussing it, you're a hater. This ham isn't alone in the inability to distinguish. If that makes him a paranoid schizophrenic, then he has a lot of company

 

First of all, at no time did I suggest that anyone should not use FT8CALL if they enjoy it. I identified a limitation of the mode and said that it has been touted as conversational, which it clearly is not. Quoting you:

"I will say, though...the first time you snag a DX ragchew with -20dB SNR and proceed to have an actual conversation.."

Nor did I put anyone down for using this mode. The mode is NOT a person. If it has limitations or questionable claims have been made about it....it's NOT PERSONAL, it's technical, and in some cases, simply opinion. I stated a limitation of the mode and challenged the touting of "actual conversation" as an important aspect of this mode.

I am taking issue with calling stacked 15 second sequences to accomplish a single short sentence, a "conversation". That is my only point about the mode . Can one consider that this throughput allows an "actual conversation" to take place?

It is communication, but so many comments I've seen, seem to imply that it's a great conversational tool...well...it's not....unless neither party has much to say, or they have a very long time to say it. (speaking of throughput, not content)

As I said earlier, it has it's uses, and assets. "Actual conversation" isn't one of them. The only thing "conversational" about the mode (because of the throughput), is the fact that it has a person on each end, actively attempting to share spontaneous information, not canned scripts or pre-defined information....and that is good!

Is it Communication: Most Certainly
Is it Effective: Certainly
Is it Conversational: Not very.

I have witnessed the claims being made for this mode. They are what led me to download and install the software. The fact that these claims cannot be challenged or even questioned without provoking dismay, misrepresentations and hostility towards the questioners, is quite revealing.

So, please, don't misrepresent or mis-characterize what I've actually said. There are some very impressive elements to the software. Carrying on a real conversation just doesn't seem to be one of them, in my opinion (and I'm not alone in this assessment, from some of the feedback I've been getting).

I wish you much success in your endeavor.

73, N0AN

 

Appreciate the follow-up. Everybody is entitled to their opinion, which is what my post was about.

Hope to see you on the air, whether that is in FT8Call or one of the many other modes available to us.

Cheers.

 

I have to disagree with you on this one. We are able to have real conversations with FT8CALL, the other night myself and 3 other people from different countries spent over half an hour in a mutual conversation getting to know about each other, our families, and our respective countries. Yes, it takes a while sending the sentences in short bursts, but all 4 of us had -23 and -24 signals. I highly doubt if we would not have been able to achieve such a conversation any other way.

Just because you chose to have a fly by the seat of your pants conversation going 100 miles per hour does not mean that those of us who are not able to do that and are limited to hunting and pecking on the keyboard cannot also enjoy what we also call a "conversation".

To each his own, as I like to say. What you like may not be what everyone likes, that does not make it right or wrong, that is for each person to decide. As long as I am able to exchange ideas with someone and share interesting information with them, I consider that a conversation.

 

"never gets utilized because it never encounters a situation where it fulfills a need that the other modes cannot fulfill at a faster rate and more conveniently"? Well, try connecting to Winlinnk here in the mornings when there is no NVIS available to upload the ready-made form and the mountains block you from a direct line of sight connection and you will see that there ARE times when this may be the only available option.

In an EmComms situation, you may not have your beam antennas sitting on top of a 100-foot tower to help you in making the connections, you may only have a random piece of speaker wire that you salvaged from a tornado-ravaged parking lot and not a single tree in sight to string it up on. In situations like this (which I have been in myself) you need every single tool in that toolbox to get the job done, and I can see FT8CALL as just such a tool for such an occasion.