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A NEW FT8 with QSO and Rag Chew capabilities called FT8CALL

Discussion in 'Amateur Radio News' started by NN2X, Aug 12, 2018.

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  1. AA5CT

    AA5CT Ham Member QRZ Page

    At this link you keep citing, the chart shows ONE frequency, not a "band" (or range) of freqs, so, what constitutes the "bands" each of these numbers represents?

    Also, are these the RF frequencies that are shown, or transceiver "dial" or window frequencies that are shown?

    Let's take 160 meters, the chart shows 1.838 -- is this the RF frreq or the transceiver "dial" or window freq (sometimes called the "carrier" freq)?
     
  2. KE0EYJ

    KE0EYJ Ham Member QRZ Page

    That's neat, and I applaud your progress for us. I am sure you will achieve your goal -- very fun to see it come together for you.

    Not to seem rude, but am thinking from a perspective of a future war where satellites were destroyed or blocked, and I wanted to communicate with family in another country (I live in South Korea as HL1ZIX, by the way). That might explain my reasoning a bit better.

    NN2X, also thanks for the link -- but these are also satellite-dependent, right?
     
  3. KN4CRD

    KN4CRD Ham Member QRZ Page

    Totally understand. I've used this successfully. It would only require you to hear another station to synchronize audibly. Neat idea, IMHO: http://vtenn.com/Blog/?p=1319
     
    K8XG and KE0EYJ like this.
  4. NN2X

    NN2X XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    I use this clocking program...It works. I can tell you my FT8 was slow on contacts, (Exchanges) once i down loaded this, it was very fast. Of course running TX Hold was another key
     
  5. NO2Y

    NO2Y Ham Member QRZ Page

    WB5WPA, good question. This is the center frequency you dial to. All of these modes are pretty narrow , but the default frequencies in FT8CALL ARE these center frequencies. Something even a quarter as popular as FT8 will completely crowd out these other modes.

    This is especially critical because these modes are NOT as popular as FT8. It's not feasible to scour the bands looking for a single signal that may not even be there. They need their frequency to keep the small number of users together and to increase the likelihood of a qso.

    During ARRL Field Day or a contest, these frequencies will be wall to wall, but most of the time activity stays near the center
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2018
  6. KE0EYJ

    KE0EYJ Ham Member QRZ Page

    It seems FT8Call is about the same speed as DominoEx Micro. I was chatting with EU6KA (from here in HL Land -- 4400 miles short path) and testing various modes, last night. We were able to work each other down to 10w and still have 75 to 90 percent copy, in DominoEx Micro. He was a 3el yagi, and I was a 2el yagi, though.

    I felt that DominoEX Micro was JUST fast enough for comfort, so I'm excited that FT8Call is about the same speed. I'm guessing FT8Call has a better signal-to-noise ratio.

    Thor Micro was even better than DominoEX Micro, due to error correction, but was maybe 1/2 to 1/3 the speed.... crawling.
     
  7. KN4CRD

    KN4CRD Ham Member QRZ Page

    Let me know how it works for you!
     
  8. KE0EYJ

    KE0EYJ Ham Member QRZ Page

    One more question for you...

    It appears (from watching the gentleman's backpacking video) that FT8Call uses certain symbols to transmit commonly used sentences (signal report, hello phrases, etc). I am wondering if you took that in account to reach the 12wpm average, or if you were basing the 12wpm speed on just the paragraph-long test phrase you used?

    If you didn't take the macros-type phrases into account, then we're really looking at a speed faster than 12wpm, for typical comms, aren't we?
     
  9. KN4CRD

    KN4CRD Ham Member QRZ Page

    There are examples in the documentation. It depends on the type of transmission. Most directed commands can be sent in one tx cycle (frame).

    Once you send a free text message, it depends on the sentence structure. Here's an example:

    "WE HOLD THESE TRUTHS TO BE SELF-EVIDENT THAT ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL THAT THEY ARE ENDOWED BY THEIR CREATOR WITH CERTAIN UNALIENABLE RIGHTS THAT AMONG THESE ARE LIFE LIBERTY AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS."

    Would transmit in 13-frames, for ~11WPM.

    "A SUCCESSFUL MAN IS ONE WHO CAN LAY A FIRM FOUNDATION WITH THE BRICKS OTHERS HAVE THROWN AT HIM"

    Would transmit in 6-frames, for ~12.66WPM

    CW has a neat way of calculating WPM, timing how long it takes to transmit the word PARIS. In FT8Call, PARIS is encoded into 24 bits (4.8 bits/character). Each transmission cycle can pack up to 69 character bits. That equates to about 11.5 WPM. (69/24=2.875 words / 15 seconds * 4)
     
  10. KE0EYJ

    KE0EYJ Ham Member QRZ Page

    Thanks and I get that, but you're also including a callsign in there (part of the transmission automatically in FT8Call), whereas an op would have to type it manually and add it as part of the WPM of another mode. Also phrases like "Report ..." do not require full send of the text line in FT8Call, correct? If this is true, doesn't it transmit information faster than other modes at 12WPM?

    If an OP is able to type just one character (or nothing) to send the typical phrases we use for a contact, this could be a very substantial increase in overall QSO speed, I'd think? Am I right in saying that's what we're seeing, here? A WPM speed actually better than 12, on a typical QSO? Or did you already factor that speed into it?
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2018
  11. K8LL

    K8LL Ham Member QRZ Page

    I haven't read the whole thread, so maybe you already said what clocking program you are talking about, but I was wondering which one you are talking about?

    Thanks!
     
  12. KN4CRD

    KN4CRD Ham Member QRZ Page

    Likely just equivalent because the callsign and such take a whole frame. It would decrease the average density of words per frame.
     
  13. KE0EYJ

    KE0EYJ Ham Member QRZ Page

    Ok, you caught me while posting more about it, but this answers my question.

    Best wishes, this will be a fun experiment!
     
  14. WD4IGX

    WD4IGX Ham Member QRZ Page

    I've heard nothing about WWVB being shut down, though. And a GPS signal and accompanying GPS time source is available virtually everywhere outdoors. Someone should come up with a way to use one or both of those - an inexpensive WWVB linked clock and/or the GPS in a smart phone or inexpensive external GPS - as a time source.

    EDIT: Looks like people are already doing that with a GPS source.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2018
  15. N1AAE

    N1AAE Ham Member QRZ Page

    I've skimmed the thread and observed the mixed opinion.

    After trying it out and logging a couple QSOs, I think it's pretty neat. I'm a 'younger' ham (30 years old) and have only been licensed for about a year and a half. I love experimenting with the lesser used modes but find it discouraging when no activity can be found after hours of trying to make a HELLMODE (for example) contact.

    FT8Call is pretty neat.

    With that said, any word on when LOTW and TQSL will supoprt it so I can upload or sync my logs? I upload everything to LOTW and sync with QRZ .
     

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