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Foundations of Amateur Radio - Episode 110

Discussion in 'Amateur Radio News' started by VK6FLAB, Jul 15, 2017.

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  1. VK4HAT

    VK4HAT Ham Member QRZ Page

    This is because of opinion over substance, like peoples opinions matter. This is how it is, deal with it, is not a valid argument and for a technically minded hobby that thinks of itself as one that advances technology, or is at the cutting edge of technology, when it comes to discussion of license conditions and making them relevant for today, the ultra conservatives come out in force with their tough titties attitudes. By all means destroy Onno's argument if its invalid, or mine for that matter, because i have yet to have a single person explain or argue why learning the resistor colour code is relevant for obtaining a std class license.


    The attitude of OM VK2OZ is a rather typical one that I have encountered. There are no elmers here where I live, the older generation of hams are all pretty much like this with their I have no time for fcalls or no interest in sharing their time and knowledge. There is so much I could say on that topic but I will bite my tongue, because there is no way to express it politely, suffice to say, that every step of the way, those same "experts" have been telling me how I am doing it all wrong and its guys like me who are destroying the hobby, with our desire and enthusiasm for experimentation and learning.
     
    N8DAH likes this.
  2. VK4TI

    VK4TI Guest

    I read these claims with a degree of incredulity , the std permit allows construction and guess whats needed to make most anything in electronics ( id components sound familiar)
    If your finding no one wants to help then ask why , did you join a local club ( some close to you) or attended a hamfest near you and made introductions ?
    come on ffab answer these questions truthfully and maybe find the time for some introspection ?
     
  3. AG6ZZ

    AG6ZZ Ham Member QRZ Page

    After the third run-on sentence, I gave up trying to mentally fill in the absent punctuation. Glancing further, I see it is full of grammatical and spelling errors. The browser even highlights the spelling errors, so I'm confused as to why they were ignored before getting posted.

    At it's core, amateur radio is about communication. Poor communicators don't encourage others to listen, or read, as the case may be. I don't mean to belittle the person who posted this, but at the same time, with spelling and grammar checkers at our disposal on the computer, I can't excuse someone ranting gibberish that's unreadable. Everyone is welcome to rant. Writing at least at the seventh grade level will get rants read instead of merely ridiculed.
     
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  4. VK4HAT

    VK4HAT Ham Member QRZ Page

    And the F-call allows for construction also, all be it, you cannot put a transmitter on the air. Have you looked at any modern electronics? Have you ever tried to decipher the colour code on an SMD resistor? Or how about visually identifying the value of an SMD capacitor? Or how about how to tell if that SOT23 part is a diode or a transistor? Don't answer those questions are rhetorical. And if you look at where the serious/cutting edge homebrewing is taking place in ham radio, its SDR and Microwaves and guess what, there is hardly a single through hole part to be seen in just about all the projects out there. Even the BITX 40 SSB is PLL Synth and SMD construction.

    And lets look at some other parts the STD syllabus, being able to identify a collpits or hartly oscillator is going to help me how when that radio on my bench is using PLL Synths, DDS or some other better method of generating a frequency. I mean i know how to build and have built a super vxo, i can explain how and why it operates, but the AD9850 or SI5351a are going to do the job better each and every time.

    I am not against being examined on things, but make it relevant, there is no good reason to know how to read a resistor colour code, they just do not exist on SMD parts and for me, I am colour blind anyway so its pointless trying and secondly a DMM and RCL meters are cheap, widely available and very accurate. If being able to identify parts is important, make it relevent to what people are doing now using the parts and tools available now.

    Interesting you insinuate I am at fault here and need to reflect on myself to find the answers. Never been to a hamefest work and family i dont have time, but did go to the local club for a while and cast my net far and wide looking, on 40m, social media etc. I did eventually find an electronics elmer, a young university professor from NSW who teaches electronics engineering, who happens also to be an amateur. And i did find someone to learn CW with, all be it he was in Melbourne and not Brisbane, but 40m is open most days between us and we could learn together. As well as made a bunch of other friends along the way, but not a single one of them is the ye olde emler that the old guys claimed to have had when they were new to the hobby.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2017
  5. VK4HAT

    VK4HAT Ham Member QRZ Page

    Delete
     
  6. AG6ZZ

    AG6ZZ Ham Member QRZ Page

    Fixing our Obsolete Licensing System - My Two Cents
    I applaud the podcast blogger for taking time to evaluate licensing as it stands today. He complains there are operators who look down their noses at others when they have a measurable means to consider themselves superior, and it is condescending to others. However, such people are insecure, so should simply be ignored.

    I won't debate the blogger's proposal. It's an interesting concept, but I respectfully disagree it is the best means to delineate license privileges. The privileges afforded different license classes should be examined and assessed for their applicability in today's amateur radio environment. I believe this does occur regularly, and the amateur communities around the globe do influence regulations.
     
  7. VK6APZ/SK2022

    VK6APZ/SK2022 Ham Member QRZ Page

    VK4FFAB, you seem to be a very knowledgeable and switched on person by what i read, so why did you end up with a f-call licence.
    Am i missing something here ???.
     
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  8. VK4HAT

    VK4HAT Ham Member QRZ Page

    It all happened kind of fast. One day I was talking to a friend about CB, he mentioned his dad was an amateur now SK, I mentioned that I sat and passed the novice theory back in the mid 90's but failed the morse 3 times and gave up. I looked into things and found the code requirement was removed, i could not find the certificate to get credit for the novice exam and ACMA had no record of it. Called around and found a local club was running a F-Call exam the next week, I went and sat it and got my licence, rather than wait till they ran Std. I did start on doing their advanced course, but work got in the way and I pulled out. Got to enjoy doing radio and realised that with where my interests lie, I dont need much more than what Fcall offers and so I have not bothered to upgrade.

    I am also the kind of guy who thinks why drive a Mercedes when a Holden can get you to the shops at the speedlimit. I have friends who raced through f to Std and Adv and hardly ever use their radios. Where as I do lot of radio and am still sitting on the fcall because there is nothing i need from the higher licenses classes now and status means little to me. I think you earn the privileges to use them, not just to have them. In similar discussion to this I have seen fcalls complain they cant work dx and need 20m, yet i have worked 110 entities and am close to a qrp dxcc on 15m, came first in VK and 3rd in Oceania and top 50% in the world in cqww cw, took out wia fcall dx of the year in a field of 1, using nothing more than a 40m dipole. People think there is some magic in 20m and 100w, when in reality its about spending time and putting in effort to make those contacts.

    And yes, the guy who failed 5wpm novice code 3 times can actually send nice tidy 15wpm even if my receive is pretty much only good for 5nn tu kinds of exchanges. LOL
     
  9. VK4TI

    VK4TI Guest

    Well Ill trim this and answer simply
    The F is an introduction , I and most who have begiun at the bottom proceding to full call will agree you need to do the study , I personally have assisted numerious people to gain the ticket they deserved .
    As for electronics I am familiar with smd having been working in the field for a very long time but that doesn't mean you have to start there , there is such a diversity of possible in the hobby that offers other avenues of interest so again I suggest do the work and sit the exams as they are very germaine otherwise your doomed to being stuck with appears to be a ticket unable to meet your wants , rail if you want but nothing will change as the system is working for the interum and certainly the future holds a lot of consideration and advice before making additions to the examinations
     
  10. VK4HAT

    VK4HAT Ham Member QRZ Page

    I think you might have conveniently missed the point, and that is the relevance of what we are being tested on. I could if I was so interested take up spark gaps or two tin cans and a piece of string and still it would not make things in the std syllabus like resistor colour codes relevant. Nor have you demonstrated WHY it should remain nor HOW it is relevant. Its there just sit the exams is not an argument, its nothing more than a strawman.

    Except in the 3 or 4 places where I have said in this thread how the fcall privileges meet all my needs currently. I wont quote myself, im sure you can go back and read them.

    I am railing against nothing, there is a great difference between moaning I dont have something and questioning WHY something is how it is. I could sit and pass the Adv tomorrow if i so chose to, and even if I had an advanced ticket, I would still argue that things like resistance colour codes are totally irrelevant, and that things like basic methods of frequency generation need to be modernised to better reflect what we are likely to encounter on a modern board.

    Or how what I think on the arbitrary way in which we allocate privileges in our licence structure, or that I think the WIA is wrong in pursuing the ACMA to make the Fcall 50w, or how I agree with Onno that a delineation based on power levels would be appropriate and that the Fcall should remain low power and be called QRP and be only 5w but have 20m and digital modes, that std should have access to all of 6m, and adv should have 1kw. Or why I think we should adopt the British method of having to build a project and explain how it works.

    All these things and more I can make rational argument in support of and and the point of argument is to provoke thought that might lead to improvement and change. Not so i can get something. Just sit the exam, I win, shuts that down.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2017
  11. OH2FFY

    OH2FFY Ham Member QRZ Page

    There's ya problems right there.


    gregW:) OH2FFY
     
  12. N8DAH

    N8DAH XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    I just can't agree with the OT's....was a tech a long time, built most of my station, learning cw. I am now general and still build most of my station. I have help but I am self taught. All my antennas I built, all my tuners I built, all my amps I built, all my keyers I built, heck I even built my key. I think you get the idea.

    I am a young ham at 33 and enjoy the hobby. I agree 100% that our system is way out of date.

    We have questions on the pool that just don't have a place anymore....tubes for example...As a ham you have to go out of your way and spend big bucks to even get into tubes, pretty much zero new gear with any tubes....some might think that its still usefull but its not.

    The old vs the new is nothing new, but I have never seen a more stuborn group of OM in my life compared to hams. Its about time we bring in new technology and allow the hobby to grow instead of being locked in a rut.


    Just my 2 pennys.

    73
    David
     
  13. N7KO

    N7KO Ham Member QRZ Page

    Sounds like you just want donations , we are not CB errs maybe you are posting on the wrong site, I am not a electronic whiz but I have put together some kits and I know what resistors do and caps etc.. I have built several usable antennas. I was into CBs in the late 60s and early 70s, I remember what happened when licensing was dropped, it was total chaos.

    There is nothing wrong with the Ham Radio Licensing system as it is now, I do think dropping Code was a mistake, I was unlicensed when they dropped code and that dropping of code did make getting my first ticket easer and only until recently I have taken up code.

    Dropping code, well it think we started down a wrong path. If you do not like to experiment and do not like building with your hands and do not like taking up challenges like Code and do not like earning your way, maybe this is not hobby for you. This is one of those things that the more you work at it the more you get out of it. 73
     
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  14. WI4WD

    WI4WD Ham Member QRZ Page

    Ok I agree with dropping the code test. I believe if we had not dropped code from the test there would be only old hams left and the FCC would have reallocated the frequencies. On the other hand I do not agree with doing away with a test and going to a pay to operate system. We should make the test more applicable to what is being done now. Digital modes etc... Maybe some PC hardware and programming questions. We need to move and change with the times but dumbing down amateur radio operators will also be the beginning of the end.
     
  15. OH2FFY

    OH2FFY Ham Member QRZ Page

    Bull , ALL countries that comply to AOCP have digital mode questions in the pool for standard and full license tests.

    More bull --
    Allowable power , modes and frequencies are all privileges that are earned through higher learning and tests passed.
    You seem to be simplifying matters to minimize the differences in order to make the difference seem irrelevant.



    There is another problem.
    In order to bring in numbers , Ham Radio has been marketed to appeal to other 'types' of radio hobbyists.
    Storm spotters , contesters , preppers , rag chewers and ugg - CBers.
    In order to make things easier for people to obtain licenses introductory classes were added in some countries - Foundation and Technician.

    All that these lower classes have done is bring in more people that are not so interested in radio electronics.
    A large percentage of these people will not advance , they will not upgrade or even be bothered to learn more ,, and Why ?, because they already have all that they want.
    They have peaked at a low level , and they don't really care.

    For the most part these people will not become the mentors and elmers of tomorrow.
    They are at the end of the education cycle.

    They are consumers , not contributers.


    Not all countries have a requirement to learn the resistor color code.
    Obviously though it seems that the licensing authorities in Oz feel the need that Hams should know at least the very basics of construction.
    I personally think they should expect more and make testing for all classes tougher.


    You seem to be quite hung up on resistor color codes.

    There is a BIG difference between being able to make a Oscillator and simply powering up a pre-built DDS module or chip.
    One requires that you know what you are doing , and the other doesn't.

    Being able to identify various circuits is just the regulatory bodies way of slowing down the appliance operator way of thinking.
    A type of mentality which will destroy Ham Radio and in turn turn the whole thing into High Power CB.


    As a person holding a beginners class license , isn't it possible that you indeed have been doing it wrong , and those people that have mentioned it have been correct ??

    When people recently passing their car drivers test and have little on the road skill , I would say that it is likely that they still do things wrong , but are completely oblivious to their mistakes.

    So I would say that it is most likely that when a experienced Ham points out a mistake by a F call ---- he is probably right and the F Op is wrong.


    I seriously doubt your statement that you are derided for having enthusiasm ,, personally I think that is just BS.

    I say that F calls are anticipating rejection by Ops of other classes , so you take every criticism as being an attack against your lower class license.


    The Foundation class was not designed to be a class to stay with , it was designed as a stepping stone into other - higher classes.
    You SHOULD upgrade.

    Foundation isn't the destination , it is the begging.

    If F class or Techs's can't grasp that concept , then they have missed the WHOLE REASON why the class of license was created.


    There is a good explanation for that.
    Mercedes are well designed , safe , and offer good value for money.
    Holden's on the other hand are complete SHIT , made with backward technology , marketed for people with low expectations and/or the lack of knowledge to know a good car even if it fell on their head.
    They are so backward that they are unable to be sold in Europe , as they don't comply to safety or emission standards.

    If it were not for the governments heavy taxes against Euro imports , the Oz automobile industry would have died in the 70's.



    There are many facets to Ham Radio ,, and not all of them require being glued to the dial every day like an obsessed freak.
    I am a VERY active Ham but I get on their air about 1 day a month.

    -----------

    The reality is that while Technician and Foundations class licenses have increased licensee numbers , they have FAILED to improve the numbers of Hams that will be around to create the next generation of Hams.


    gregW:) OH2FFY
     
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