Yaesu's "overlooked" Dayton introduction - the FT-1D

Many years ago, when I was a Broadcast Engineer specializing in the repair of 1/2" Betacam, M-II and other broadcast video recorders, I attended numerous schools on various VCR models from several Japan-based manufacturers. Each time I would ask the same question: "Why is it that you have such a different and incompatible product with everyone else?"

The answer was always the same: (Paraphrased): "Thats our way. We NEVER will make the same product as our competitor because that is our way. Our standard is the only standard. No other exists..."

I think that business mindset explains far more than one technology being superior to another. Or as my friend Ron used to say: "The nice thing about standards is that everybody has one."

My personal belief is that unless the ham radio community as a whole selects its own singular digital standard and refuses all others, that at some time in the future when radios are digital-only with no common analog format like FM or SSB included, we will have a world-wide amateur radio community where owners of one brand of radio will have no way to talk to the owners of any other brand of radio.

In the past, "we" the ham radio community have been the ones who dictate to the manufacturers what "we want." Now, in the digital domain, we are the ones being dictated to. While given manufacturers may each want to corner the marketplace with "their standard" it is up to we hams to decide among us what "we want" and then demand en masse such products. Otherwise, one day in the not so distant future, my Brand X digital radio system may not be able to talk to you because you have a Brand Z digital radio that can only talk to other hams with Brand Z digital radios.

Imagine a DXpedition where the participants have to carry three or four brands of radios just to be able to make contacts with the owners of various brands of digital audio radios that cannot talk to one another. Or contests where the same scenarios hold forth.

Its easy to say "...well there will always be CW" -- but there may come a day -- faster than anyone might think -- when there are no new radios with CW included. Then what?

Final thought: If you think this to be a fairy tale, just think in terms of the total incompatibility for most of the worlds TV receivers designed to receive COFDM signals and those here in the USA (and a small number of other nations) that have opted for the lousy compromise of 8VSB because our government regulator the FCC threw open the doors to "competition" rather than setting a single standard and forcing all to manufacture to it and thus make us "world compatible."

de WA6ITF

 

Why would anyone want digital?

 

I am starting to believe Icom, Yaesu and Kenwood have a conspiracy, they are leading us to believe "DIGITAL" stand for; Directing Illuminated Gentlemen Into Total Abalienation Language.

 

Quickest way to tick off a Yaesu employee? Go to their booth in Dayton and ask them when they'll be releasing a D-Star radio. VERY cold reception there.

Yes, D-Star has it's cons, but as others have mentioned the infrastructure is already there. I don't know why Yaesu has to try to be so different, even if it means releasing a product nobody will buy (think, "WIRES".... Epic Fail).

 

What's a DV Dongle??

 

The Yaesu booth had TOO MUCH going on at Dayton this year. After lusting over FT-3000 & the Hooter's Girl, I forgot all about digital radio

 

Overlooked? No. Let down? Yes.

D-Star and P25 have substantial infrastructure already in place, and P25 is doing it without any direct ham market support from the manufacturers. iDen/Nexedge has a presence but still not as strong yet, same for Mototrbo. Backing any of those would have been leaps and bounds improvement if the mobiles and repeaters promised has also been released, but alas the full line support of models planned to be there weren't and nobody can see any hint of being this compatible with anything already out there. There was a ton of buzz and many months of lead up (I believe it was still last summer when the first youtube videos from Japan were leaked, then fall when Yaesu updated their website), people went to Dayton with the hopes of seeing where the support was gathered, and with /\/\ and Yaesu being what it is, there was much hope for the largely popular P25 to show up, and instead the market for those looking to use digital is further diluted; yes there are some that will try out the different modes just to learn a new mode, but digital radios aren't cheap so maintaining 5 digital modes simply isn't an option for most.

 

Looking over the flyer at Dayton, I also saw the C4FM designator.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that the standard P25 designator?

As for the radio, I was bummed. I was wanting a Trbo compatible rig. I would not be surprised if this radio is a P25 rig but somehow crippled so it does not actually work on P25 but instead on some #######ized subset.

I personally think this critter will see very few sales. Like the Alinco DJ series digital board of yesteryear.

Brad

 

In simplest terms, it is my understanding that all P25 (well phase one at least I'm behind on the technical side of phase II) is C4FM modulation, not all C4FM modulation is P25, needless to say the C4FM did lead to hope and hype of possible P25, but as it would seem that is not the case based on what people were reporting from Dayton, and nowhere does Yaesu mention P25 in any of their new digital ham radio literature.

 

"Back in the days" when i wasn't even licensed (or born...), the real old men tell me it was the amateurs that made the standard, and then mfg. jumped aboard because the amateurs demanded the stuff. Think SSB. Nowadays, they try to peddle the old wine in new skins to checkbook amateurs. Yayhoo have been very active in that area. In my opinion they had better see that they get a proper representation in europe for example, as long as they don't bear a proper address and serious dealerships with worldwide service, they ain't getting the best of my checkbook no more. Then adhere to the very few free and open standards - make the stuff usable with aprs, packet, pocsag. Tehn, building a camera into an HT mic, but equipping the rig with orange-black brick pixel display that cannot show the pic? Guess there's a reason why marketing tries to hide the stuff from public.

 

Well put. C4FM is a modulation scheme, and not the digital protocol itself. I have the pamphlet in front of me right now, and spoke to two different Yaesu booth staffers, and I still have no idea what the protocol is.

As a businessman, I understand the need to differentiate brands, and specific products, from the competition. I'm not sure this is the best way of achieving that goal. Assuming that this contains neither D-Star or TRBO, I would have preferred that Yaesu would have selected an established protocol and then positioned it's digital products on basis of well-known brand values.

 

That's the money question, thank you.

As for a "standard," since when is the radio hobby homogenized in the first place? Let the best type "win," popular acceptance, even if it takes a while.

But, as the questioner points out, the category of digital communications, especially on HF, has yet to really find widespread support. It's somewhat like AM Stereo, and Hybrid Digital the industry tried to establish for the broadcast band. Both failed, not because of technical shortcomings, but because listeners / users didn't see the need.

I suspect that's what will happen to "digital" comms among licensed radio hobbyists. A few niche areas of activity, among subsets of enthusiasts. And that's fine, because the hobby is not and should never be homogenized, either by regulation, by the League's internal agenda, nor by marketing fiat.

 

Personally, I would have liked to see a P25 radio from them, having a mixed-mode repeater here.

However, not knowing all of the prior Motorola/Vertex agreements, there may have been something in the separation papers that said something like Yaesu cannot make a P25 compatible amateur radio product. Probably Mot doesn't want a glut of cheap P25 products coming on the market (like the Chinese inexpensive handhelds that are 'certified' for commercial use).

Why not Dstar? Something I learned a long time ago... NIH! (not invented here). Like the guy above said, 'if it's not ours, it's nothing'. (paraphrased).

The future for the 1D? Icom has really been pushing Dstar pretty hard, and although there are centers of interest, I wouldn't say that it's a real moneymaker for Icom. Yaesu will have a rough road, even if they come out with an entire line of handhelds, mobiles & repeaters.

Tim W5FN

 

Avery interesting mixture of technologies, with these options, it will be an experimenter's playground to integrate with various other Amateur Radio technologies.

 

I agree - Yaesu's FT-1D wasn't overlooked at all. There just isn't a lot of excitement over it. Yaesu has provided little to no information about what their plans are as far as infrastructure (repeaters) is concerned. Earlier this year, they mentioned introducing an HT and a mobile. So far, all we've seen is the HT. Not real useful without a repeater to work through. While D-Star is far from perfect, Icom already has substantial lead in market penetration. Icom, in my opinion, pushed the idea of D-Star better than Yaesu is doing now. When D-Star hit the U.S., both the radios and the repeaters were available for purchase. Lately, Icom has also done a lot to get repeaters installed by refunding the purchase price if it was installed within a certain period of time and had 10 or more registered users. Still, it has taken five years to get to where they are today. So, even if Yaesu's system is better, I think they're going to have a hard time selling this. IMO, they should have had all the key components available before bringing it to market.