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Modes like A.M. and F.M. are "bandwidth hogs" and therefore
have no place on H.F.
This is not a personal issue, it is rather a best practices issue.
There are simply better, more efficient ways for us to
communicate.
Amateur Radio is not broadcasting. It is about communications effectiveness.
Suppose I got the idea that I had the right to operate full
stereo F.M. within a 200 kHz channel. Sure, I would sound
great, but would I be permitted to do this? Of course not ! !
Some are looking for more spectrum within H.F. for A.M. and
also wish to run high power as well.
This is a bad idea.
If some hams want to run A.M., yes it is a perfectly legal mode.
But, please, not at my expense.
Go on up to U.H.F. or higher to do it.
There's all kinds of room up there ! !
Roland Craig W X 4 X
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I get a kick out of your comment WX4X. I guess we should crush all the Model A cars and Grandma's Antique furniture while we're at it. It's outdated too! If you want to talk about efficient, I guess we should all run PSK31. Boy that stuff doesn't take up any room. Scrap that SSB!
Come on, get a grip... with a mentality like that this hobby will cease to be fun. This is a hobby for God's sake, have an open mind and enjoy it. By all means, enjoy the mode you prefer. I love all modes. But what the heck, I am not afraid to say it. I love "AM" and long may it live. And maybe if we are lucky it can live in peace next to SSB. Basically.. SUCK IT UP AND GET ALONG! Learn to play well with others. It will make the air waves a better place for all of us.
Sincerely,
W9AMR
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 4-->| Quote (ku4uk @ July 04 2004,204) | AM. Was ok in it's day. But it makes a lot mad today. Because it takes up to much FREQ. That was just one reason hams went to SSB. It would be a lot better if AM'ers would work at upper end of the bands. Like CW does at lower end. Just my ideal. Everyone got one I guess. Some may have two.[/QUOTE]
That is a slippery slope you are proposing to build, OM. SSB is not the most spectrally-efficient voice mode, either. In going from full-carrier, double-sideband AM to single sideband AM, some of the natural sound, but not the intelligibility, has been lost. With the loss of a bit more natural sound, there are more spectrally efficient voice modes than SSB. There are easy techniques that can compress SSB into using less bandwidth, so if you are going to condemn AM for using too much spectrum, you must also condemn SSB.
If this is carried to an extreme, soon we would have only one voice mode to use in amateur radio -- whichever one is the most spectrally efficient. #We would have only one digital mode, and on/off keyed CW would not be permitted at all, because its occupied spectrum is much wider than necessary for its data rate.
Mode diversity is one of our strengths, and this AM crowd is doing something that every one of us should do more -- getting on the air and having fun!
73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI/6
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| Quote (wa9cwx @ June 28 2004,16:26) | Anyway congrats to ARRL on recognizing a growing group of interested, interesting and active hams doing RADIO stuff (as opposed to #"software" stuff).[/QUOTE]
AM is not "opposed" to the software stuff at all. Amateur Radio and ARRL can accomodate both AM and software-defined radio and whatever else may come along.
I am not a phone op, but I see so many similarities between the enthusiasm of my part of ham radio -- QRP, and the AM community.
When I listen to the empty spaces on some of our bands, I am thankful that there are hams doing things that are different than I do, because it gets them on the air. We need more of that, and need to encourage and support all hams who make use of our spectrum, because in the final analysis, that is the only think that amateur radio is all about.
Ed Hare, W1RFI/6
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May I offer some perspective?
Every single specialty in the hobby has critics who occasionally cough up a negative comment because of jealousy or because they're trying to protect their own specialty. Out of 8000 viewings of this thread we have just two negative people here. To my point, Roland/WX4X shows up among DXers (who have their own operating "windows"), and Leon/KU4UK hangs out near a popular AM frequency on 160 meters and may have unwittingly crossed paths with us as we try to coordinate our activity.
Neither of their operating interests is more "important" than anyone else's, and their use of SSB to pursue those interests would not change the equal right we all have to a spot on the dial.
Those who date back (and I'm not among them) can remember that SSB's struggle for acceptance 40+ years ago was eventually resolved through a strategy of heavy marketing and gradual technical understanding and acceptance. It was a positive development for the hobby, and created more room on the HF bands for the category of "mainstream" phone communications. But today when we criticise any specialty, including AM, it opens up to scrutiny whether we deserve spectrum for ANY of our communications beyond emergency use.
I keep in mind that it's all chit-chat folks, and it is folly to try to argue "efficiency" of some mode over another when none of it really needs to be on the air.
On the other hand, federal regulators have seen fit to allow and, indeed, encourage a wide variety of modes and activities in ham radio because, for one reason, it helps maintain an informal base of operators who could step forward during communications emergencies.
Anyone, regardless of their mode or activity, can feel confident that their participation in the hobby helps show our "use" of the bands offered up to us. That's as far as we can or should go to illustrate "efficiency" of our use of these frequencies.
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| Quote (wa3vjb @ July 09 2004,07:33) | May I offer some perspective?
Every single specialty in the hobby has critics who occasionally cough up a negative comment because of jealousy or because they're trying to protect their own specialty. Out of 8000 viewings of this thread we have just two negative people here. To my point, Roland/WX4X shows up among DXers (who have their own operating "windows"), and Leon/KU4UK hangs out near a popular AM frequency on 160 meters and may have unwittingly crossed paths with us as we try to coordinate our activity.
Neither of their operating interests is more "important" than anyone else's, and their use of SSB to pursue those interests would not change the equal right we all have to a spot on the dial.
Those who date back (and I'm not among them) can remember that SSB's struggle for acceptance 40+ years ago was eventually resolved through a strategy of heavy marketing and gradual technical understanding and acceptance. It was a positive development for the hobby, and created more room on the HF bands for the category of "mainstream" phone communications. But today when we criticise any specialty, including AM, it opens up to scrutiny whether we deserve spectrum for ANY of our communications beyond emergency use.
I keep in mind that it's all chit-chat folks, and it is folly to try to argue "efficiency" of some mode over another when none of it really needs to be on the air.
On the other hand, federal regulators have seen fit to allow and, indeed, encourage a wide variety of modes and activities in ham radio because, for one reason, it helps maintain an informal base of operators who could step forward during communications emergencies.
Anyone, regardless of their mode or activity, can feel confident that their participation in the hobby helps show our "use" of the bands offered up to us. That's as far as we can or should go to illustrate "efficiency" of our use of these frequencies.[/QUOTE]
Hi Paul,
#Keep in mind also Paul, that with 8000 "hits" there
#have been only 45 comments, and while most have
#been "positive", how many people may have read
#the posting es may be hesitant or relunctant to
#comment even though they might not agree,
#especially when the ARRL is involved.
#That would be my "question",-- what might the
#"minimal" response to this article mean, or
# not mean? #
# Sometimes it is what is not said, that concerns
# me.
# # # # # # # # # 73`s, Rene, K1MVP #
# # 
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Rene, you and I have had a chat like this before -- regarding the observed participation in public discourse.
I remain convinced that the comments in any forum, including this one, are divided into those who are prompted to say something and those who don't feel strongly enough to contribute.
My point remains valid: #There are very few people who feel the need to defend SSB anymore. Those who do, seem to have some specific problems that can be resolved through cooperation as with any other activity in the hobby that provokes criticism.
Meantime, on a topic far grander than this subject matter, I note with some disappointment that less than 200 people filed reply comments on the FCC's regulatory proposal to scale back reserved space for Morse Code. # The deadline was last week on the FCC's Electronic Comment Filing System. #
Did you file something ?
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| Quote (wa3vjb @ July 11 2004,09:19) | Rene, you and I have had a chat like this before -- regarding the observed participation in public discourse.
I remain convinced that the comments in any forum, including this one, are divided into those who are prompted to say something and those who don't feel strongly enough to contribute.
My point remains valid: #There are very few people who feel the need to defend SSB anymore. Those who do, seem to have some specific problems that can be resolved through cooperation as with any other activity in the hobby that provokes criticism.
Meantime, on a topic far grander than this subject matter, I note with some disappointment that less than 200 people filed reply comments on the FCC's regulatory proposal to scale back reserved space for Morse Code. # The deadline was last week on the FCC's Electronic Comment Filing System. #
Did you file something ?[/QUOTE]
# Hi Paul,
# I would agree Paul with your premise that many may
# not feel strongly enough to comment,--if that is the
# case, then there is a lot of "apathy" out there, which
# is as bad as "not caring enough to comment".
# Either way, ham radio stands to "lose" if one is either
# "afraid" to comment or just does not care enough to
# to voice an opinion.
# As far as your comparison between SSB and AM,-- as
# a "competitive" thing back 40 years ago, I do not
# believe it applies as you said.
It was not "heavy marketing" and "understanding"
that led to acceptance of SSB back then,--It just
"made sense" as a new mode.
# SSB was relatively "new" back 50 years ago and was
# a "move forward" back then in relation to AM, i.e.,
# no more "big iron" for heavy duty modulators, and
heavy duty power supply`s, and was
# much more effective watt per watt, etc, etc,and
occupied less frequency spectrum to boot.
# The perception now, is that AM is an "old" mode es
# while it may be nostalgic, es "fun", it is viewed by
# many as trying to return to the "past", which of
# course is impossible. #
#
# As far as filing under the FCC`s, (EFCS) website,--
# I did file under the Restructuring proposal`s, RM-10867
# RM-10868, es RM-10870, on licensing and exam
# proposed changes, of which I had strong opinions
# about.
# I really believe that "watering down" the exam system
# and an "automatic upgrade" for the NCT license will
# adversely effect ham radio more than anything, even
# band segment allocations.
# So in answer to your question, I thought about filing
# under Docket # 04-140, but did not because I had
# mixed feelings, on re-allocations on this issue, as I
# do still enjoy cw as much as am, es sometimes more.
# In any event, I did notice you called for people to
# file on the am website, and I noticed you had little
# if any response, even from am`ers.
# I wonder what this says?-- More "apathy"?--as I
# know many am`ers expressed concern on the am web-
# site.
# In any event, time will tell, es the FCC will rule es
# then we may hear from those who said or filed nothing.
# # # # # # # # # # # # #
# # # # # # # # # # # # # # 73`s #Rene, K1MVP #
# # #
P.S., I have spoken to some hams both in person,
es on the air, on some of the ARRL proposal`s
and many do NOT agree, but feel "helpless"
to do anything, and also feel its a "done deal"
as far as them being implemented.
Sort of like "why bother to vote", cause
"my vote does not matter anyway".
So is it any wonder there is a "minimal response"
on many of these issues.
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The perception now, is that AM is an "old" mode es
#while it may be nostalgic, es "fun", it is viewed by
#many as trying to return to the "past",
Rene, AM is an old mode, having celebrated 100 years since the first voice communications at Cobb Island, Maryland at the south end of the Chesapeake Bay from me here at Annapolis.
I thought your point was that there was some sort of defensiveness among SSB operators when asked to share space with other modes and activities. #
There is not much for users of SSB to be defensive nor insecure about, since AM, packet, CW and other modes today are specialties out there that enjoy devoted followings. Just like the old car hobby, the older one is not intended to provide the greatest utility, but retains value in other ways, measured by other standards that are just as "important."
Most people understand that, and this is why I believe there has been only overwhelmingly positive comments on this thread, in other forums, and most importantly, on the air in response to the ARRL's having added a vintage AM station to its operating setup at W1AW. #I hope you will find the time to visit the place sometime and fire it up for us to hear.
Paul/VJB
Annapolis
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Quote WA3VJB,
" I thought your post was that there was some sort
of defensiveness among SSB operators when asked
to share space with other modes"
"There is not much for SSB to be defensive or insecure
about since AM, packet, cw es other modes are
specialties out there"
"other standards are just as important"
OK Paul,
Tell that to the FCC and ARRL.
If what you say is true, why the SSB-AM "wars" on
75 meters, especially a few years ago?
I would think it was because both were "competing"
for the same "space" at the top end of 75.
I would also think that the NCT "automatic upgrade"
to general will not "help" in this aspect.(approx.
300,000)
More "instant generals", mostly on SSB competing
for a "given amount" of space.
Couple this with the new novice proposal (no-code)
with phone priveleges on 75 es 40 meters, I dont
see a "bright future" for AM.
Time will tell as to how this scenario will "play out".
73, Rene, K1MVP
P.S., remember,--I do enjoy AM, but I question
how all this will effect it.
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