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RFI Complaints and City Council Involvement

Discussion in 'Amateur Radio News' started by N8WP, Feb 3, 2002.

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  1. N8WP

    N8WP Ham Member QRZ Page

    From the ARRL...

    RFI COMPLAINTS, CITY COUNCIL INVOLVEMENT FRUSTRATE MICHIGAN AMATEUR

    Rob Underwood, W8YRB, says RFI complaints have him at his wit's end. The Wyoming, Michigan, ARRL member says his efforts to resolve some neighbors' complaints of stubborn interference are at an impasse. To add to his
    frustration, the Wyoming City Council now has asked the FCC to step in, and the situation has erupted into a media spectacle that, he says, hasn't done much for ham radio's image.

    The FCC's position with respect to RFI to consumer devices is that the consumer device--telephone, stereo, TV or other appliance--most often is to blame, and that consumers need to deal with appliance manufacturers.

    Underwood says he's gone the extra mile to resolve interference complaints, but one neighbor a half block away has become especially intractable, pinning blame for interference to her telephone and touch lamp squarely on him. The woman ultimately complained to the city council, which met January 21 and unanimously agreed to contact the FCC.

    Underwood said city council members "threw their hands in the air, and most of them said it was my station that needed to be 'filtered' and didn't want to hear what my solutions were." Twenty one amateurs reportedly attended the council meeting on Underwood's behalf, and one Council member praised Underwood's attempts to assist and to educate everyone.

    Underwood said, however, that several other neighbors turned up at the session with new RFI complaints he hadn't heard before. He's volunteered to assist them. Underwood says media coverage has focused on the neighbors' complaints rather than on his efforts to respond to them.

    The neighbor's touch lamp seems especially susceptible to RFI and even flickers when he keys his 100-W mobile transmitter while driving by her house, Underwood said. Although he installed some ferrite chokes on the lamp's power cord, the problem persisted. The neighbor has refused further offers of help.

    Underwood reports that his own home is essentially free of RFI problems, with the exception of his cordless telephones when he runs his amplifier. He said he installed RF chokes on telephone equipment for his immediate neighbors who had complained of problems, and they have not reported any interference since.

    Underwood has the full support of ARRL Michigan Section Manager Dick Mondro, W8FQT, who noted that the FCC Detroit Field Office was also aware of the problem and has been cooperating in resolving the issue.

    ARRL provides information and resources to deal with RFI problems on the ARRL Web site's RFI pages.
     
  2. WK4WK

    WK4WK Ham Member QRZ Page

    Is it me or doesn't those $12 cordless phones and lamps have a decal affixed to them stating they must accept any interference?
     
  3. K1XS

    K1XS Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    A label may state that the consumer has to accept interference, it does not mean that they will accept it quitely. It's easier for them to blame the ham operator and complain to the city council, FCC, and their congressman. After spending 20 or 30 dollars on a cordless phone, they don't want to hear that it is a poorly designed piece of junk that gets wiped out by nearby transmitters.

    It looks like W8YRB went above and beyond what is required to fix the neighbors problems.

    Did you read the story of the group in California that claim they are sensitive to radio frequencies and are trying to use that to stop cell phone towers? How long before someone goes to a city council meeting and claims the ham down the street is causing shortness of breath or other medical problems by being on the air?
     
  4. W9JCM

    W9JCM Ham Member

    I am sure you will see the FCC back the Operator. Sounds like another case of the MEDIA druming up trouble as usual. I think this ham has went above what he really has to do. The ARRL should step in too on his behalf. Where are these guys when you need them?
     
  5. k7vvv

    k7vvv Guest

    K1XS mentioned Californians trying to stop all cellphone towers.

    Regarding paranoia about cellphone tower radiation, the funny thing is, these things operate with very LOW power, especially compared to other common sources of RF in the community. Of course this is one of the principles of cellular telephone service; that by operating very low power over a small area, the same frequencies can be reused a short distance away with a different set of local users temporarily in that cell.

    I have a funny anecdote. To the south of Seattle there is a newage cult led by a woman named JZ Knight who "channels" a "35,000 year old warrior spirit" she calls "Ramtha". She is quite wealthy because of the generosity of her followers, and is well known because of a number of celebrity adherents who have come and gone over the years, including Shirley MacLaine.

    I have a friend who works for the county where the cult is located, and told me an interesting anecdote.

    The county was holding a hearing on a cellphone tower siting, and a number of people concerned about radiation from the tower showed up at the hearing to oppose it. Of course the cellphone carrier was there to explain that the tower used very low power, and was needed to serve the wireless phone users in the community.

    The actress Linda Evans (remember The Big Valley? TV western in the 1960s?) who is a JZ Knight follower and lives in the area showed up to oppose the tower, expressing fear of the health effects of cellphone signal radiation in her testimony.

    Later outside the hearing (my friend swears he saw this) Linda was seen talking on her handheld cellphone, which of course was held against her head. Think of your average PCS phone, operating around 2.2 GHz, I think.

    Think about the inverse square law regarding RF fields and how at half the distance, the effect is squared. Of course we cannot expect Linda to know this. My friend commented that thinking of the inverse square law, the unknown exposure to radiation that Linda gets from JZ Knight must be considerable, since Knight claims to use some unknown medium for communication across not only space, but time. It must take a hell of a signal to cross 35,000 years.

    73,

    K7VVV
     
  6. k7vvv

    k7vvv Guest

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (W9JCM @ Feb. 03 2002,07:04)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I am sure you will see the FCC back the Operator. Sounds like another case of the MEDIA druming up trouble as usual. I think this ham has went above what he really has to do. The ARRL should step in too on his behalf. Where are these guys when you need them?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    I hope the FCC will back the ham. But you never know. There is always the threat of Quiet Hours. If other avenues of eliminating interference are inefective, the FCC may impose quiet hours during which no operation is allowed. I think this has been done, for instance, even though the ham is transmitting a clean signal, but preventing him from operating during so-called prime time TV viewing.

    Regarding the ARRL, and the wish that "The ARRL should step in too on his behalf. Where are these guys when you need them?", what would you propose that the league do? They can offer him resources such as information for his lawyer and for the town on the law and on legal strategy, but the ARRL doesn't have the money to legally defend hams who have neighbor problems.


    73,

    K7VVV
     
  7. N8ARY

    N8ARY Ham Member QRZ Page

    [​IMG]

    I saw part of the news broadcast and the media actually used footage from previous field days to illustrate the story.

    The "blurb" on WZZM's website started, "This man is an electrical engineer by day, but at night he slips into his basement, into a world of dots and dashes." Talk about Batman-like hype.

    To The Ham Cave, everyone!!!
     
  8. KC8FWD

    KC8FWD QRZ Member QRZ Page

    I had a problem here with my Neighbors.I had put a Cushcraft 17B2 up and for 2 days I had a few neighbors see it go up.I was waiting for my FT-100d to come in from AES and they were complaining.So I left it up and never used it but I did turn it to make them think that I was but no radio was hooked to it and they complained.So a week later I took it down and the complaining stopped.I told them what I did and they said I was a liar so it goes to show that some neighbors just think the antenna is a eyesore and don't want it up.I have it up now and use it but no problems since I called there bluff later and 73's de Mike KC8FWD
     
  9. N8ARY

    N8ARY Ham Member QRZ Page

    When I get interference from the teen-ager next door with the same brand of cordless phone as mine, I don't go whining to the City Council. I simply go to my "hard-wired" phone. I get plenty of interference from other wireless users on my cell phone, too. What about the harmful interference I get when I try to use FRS radios and some j****ss on the same channel decides to butt in?

    I think this is a bunch of people who have a need to be a victim of something and have nothing else to B*#CH about. When they found out they could get on TV, they played it up even more.

    It sounds to me like the 20 or so rednecks who get on TV describing what the tornado sounded like, even if they didn't see or hear anything.
     
  10. KC9ALV

    KC9ALV Guest

    At least this guy's neighbors are content to just complain...  Back in CB days, one of my dad's buddies put up a large antenna, but didn't have a radio connected to it yet.  (I forget what the antenna was, I think it was a quad of some sort) Anyway, as soon as it went up, the neighbors started complaining and called the police, etc.  When told he didn't even have a radio, they got so mad they went into his back yard, cut the coax and pulled his tower down with a pickup truck.  When he came outside to complain, they beat the hell out of him. (Hell hath no fury like rednecks scorned&#33[​IMG] He was in the hospital for almost a week.  We later learned that they thought that the man was an FBI agent or something, because the police were "hiding" his radio.
     
  11. KD7NBH

    KD7NBH QRZ Member QRZ Page

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K1XS @ Feb. 03 2002,10:38)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Did you read the story of the group in California that claim they are sensitive to radio frequencies and are trying to use that to stop cell phone towers?  How long before someone goes to a city council meeting and claims the ham down the street is causing shortness of breath or other medical problems by being on the air?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    This may not be as farfetched as you think. The lady I board my dog with was sued by a neighbor that complained the excessive barking caused her to get diabetes and glaucoma. It made it all the way to a jury!
     
  12. Guest

    Guest Guest

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (K1XS @ Feb. 03 2002,04:38)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> 

    Did you read the story of the group in California that claim they are sensitive to radio frequencies and are trying to use that to stop cell phone towers?  How long before someone goes to a city council meeting and claims the ham down the street is causing shortness of breath or other medical problems by being on the air?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
    Where I live is rather rural, and we've had people call and ask if our township board has any plans to approve any new cell towers, seems there's an area free of them here...and a few of them are looking to move.
    Problem is, in no way can the board promise that there will never be another cell tower put up.
     
  13. NS1O

    NS1O Ham Member QRZ Page

    It's not serprising that we have people that complain like that, it seems that most just want to control what someone else is doing, look at the gun issues? People seem to think that they know what is going on because the media tells them or it feels good but they don't have a any idea at all. I had a instance similer to yours with RFI many years ago (1975) with a TV (1963) where the neighbor said that I was interfering with it even when I wasn't home and the radio wasn't working (bad tube, remember them) they never said a word to me just complained to the FCC, I got a pink slip asking what was up when I told them they just about laughed at them. I did offer to try and find the cause but was turned down ( they didn't want my kind in their house) After that the same neighbor accused me of shooting at their house with a high powered rifle when the cops got here all I asked was do you see any holes in their house the cop said no and checked the gun to see if it been fired it had not been fired for two weeks. Of course the same neighbor also said that my house was on their land when they had first moved in even though this house had been here for 30 years and 10 years before theirs was even built, I guess the moral of this story is know matter what theirs always people out their that have nothing better to do then to make other people miserable!! Thank God that they moved after two years!! I wonder if it's the same people HI HI. I wish people would get the facts and not from the media before they complain..

    Good luck to you and 73!
    NS1O Al
     
  14. WW1ME

    WW1ME Ham Member QRZ Page

    Regarding the ARRL's role in W8YRB's RFI problems. SO glad you asked us. Please rest assured that the ARRL field (section officials, as noted in the story) and HQ staff members have offered assistance to Rob Underwood in dealing with his RFI difficulties. The Web site story that appeared earlier was a bit more specific in this regard www.arrl.org/news/stories/2002/01/28/1/. ARRL Web site
     
  15. KC9AXZ

    KC9AXZ XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    As a new HAM and ex CB'er I feel your pain. I have a neighbor who complains also. I know my problem is my antennas. The neighbor doesn't like my antenna systems (another neighbor relayed the message). I few years ago my neighbor accused me of messing with his TV. He went so far as to "pin" my coax. I nicely told him it was not me. I also explaned that his new "big screen" TV was built for s***. He wanted nothing to do with my explanation. Soon he realized I was working during the times he accused me of messing up his TV. The funny thing is I left the CB antenna up with the "pinned" coax (I didn't use it anyway). I put up my new antennas with a different coax run. He hasn't complaned since. In the mean time the output of my other radios are 10 times more power than my legal CB radios (now sold).

    KB9AXZ
     
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