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Thread: Poor operating etiquette or is it just my gear?

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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    TN
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    102

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    Quote Originally Posted by W8MW View Post
    You do have a point and it's more about operators than equipment. There is a lessening of courtesy with people starting up a new QSO too close to one already in progress. There can always be reasons why 2 kHz spacing is the best they can do. Sometimes legit reasons. Other times it's being thoughtless and not grasping the concept of staying out of the next fellow's passband when it isn't necessary to move in too close.
    I agree and feel like this is definitely part of the equation. As I scan through the bands and listen to QSOs especially on 80M and 40M, the sentiment when a nearby conversation starts up seems to be "well we've been using this frequency for years so why should we have to move down another kHz or two?"

    Thanks for all of the input so far, it certainly sounds like there are several legitimate reasons for operating closely to others and then some not-so-legitimate (but possibly valid) situations such as operators who may have their antennas finely tuned for exact frequencies and they have no interest in moving away, regardless if a nearby QSO is occurring or not.

    The more I read the more it sounds like newer technology can definitely help improve things, and upgrading to a better class rig may be the route I wind up taking.
    Last edited by W4MBT; 02-19-2013 at 02:04 PM.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    TN
    Posts
    102

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    Quote Originally Posted by KJ3N View Post
    Try a TS-590, or a K3.
    Thanks...I checked out the K3 this morning and that looks like a nice rig to start with at a more basic level and then build up with upgrades over time. At least, I'm assuming you can do that as long as they make the parts?

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    TN
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    102

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    Quote Originally Posted by N3AWS View Post

    (BTW, I hope the OP knows I was only pulling his leg about the receiver on the TS-2000)

    73,
    Yep, no worries.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Central NY
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    4,542

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    Quote Originally Posted by W4MBT View Post
    Thanks...I checked out the K3 this morning and that looks like a nice rig to start with at a more basic level and then build up with upgrades over time. At least, I'm assuming you can do that as long as they make the parts?
    Yep. I have the K3/10 and I have been adding bits and pieces here and there. Next in line is the 100 watt PA
    73
    de Jim

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by W4MBT View Post
    Yes, definitely meant kHz....I was typing my first post on an iPad and it auto-corrected and I didn't realize it.

    The overall point is still the same, most of the QSOs are occuring about 2 kHz apart...for example if I'm trying to listen to someone on 3860 that I might try to work, it seems like more often than not now there is a conversation from someone with a 20-over signal talking on 3858.
    IMHO, it's mostly a receiver problem.

    One of the truly Big Differences between "excellent" and "good" rigs nowadays is in the "steep skirt/dynamic range" performance - the ability to not hear the strong signals just next door.

    Years ago, it was common for amateur SSB rigs to be equipped with 2.7 kHz SSB filters. Many had only 4 poles, a few had 6. Then 2.1 kHz/8 pole filters became common. Rigs began to sport cascaded filters, various forms of PBT/VBT/hi-cut/lo-cut/notch, etc. And of course DSP. Improved dynamic range (of all kinds) and ultimate filter rejection came along too.

    But along with these improvements came changes in operating procedures. With a 2.7 kHz/4 pole filter, 2 kHz stretch of band with nobody on it would not qualify as "an open frequency" because you'd hear the folks next door. But with cascaded 1.8 kHz 8 pole filters, etc., that same patch of band sounds completely open. End result: Somebody jumps in and uses it.

    73 de Jim, N2EY

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Rochester, MN
    Posts
    20,076

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    I think it's a bit of both. I don't think the TS2000 sucks as a receiver, either, it's QST review numbers were fairly decent. But sure, there are better rigs out there. I continue to be impressed with my ancient Ten Tec Omni VI+, and I know it's far from the best out there. I see that Inrad sells a 2.1 kHz replacement filter for the TS-2000. It's a pretty sharp 8 pole filter, that I suspect would be a huge improvement, at the cost of some SSB audio fidelity (but not that much). I presume it requires careful soldering skills to install this device, and I would suspect some realignment, too. http://www.inrad.net/product.php?pro...&cat=38&page=1

    Some people do get too close to others - in some cases, they have better receivers. I'm probably guilty of this when I'm doing digital modes, because we digital guys can usually line up right next to each other - no space showing on the waterfall - without interference. Indeed, I find that Olivia mode can operate with one RTTY station right on top of it! Two RTTY stations are too many, though! Now, the guy operating RTTy is probably not as happy, and the guy operating CW 500 Hz away with a 2.7 kHz filter in his radio is madder than heck, probably screaming LID and cursing that he can't copy my callsign. But the PSK31 guys a couple Hz away from me on either side are happy as clams.

    And, yes, if you're in between two other stations on 75 meters, it's entirely possible that they can both be clobbering you, and not hear each other. Propagation on that band is really pretty dynamic, and it changes fairly rapidly at times. I often see huge changes when I'm running my 80 meter digi nets. Over the course of one hour, close by stations will go from 20 over S9 down to inaubdible as the minimum skip distances change.
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  7. #27
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Del Rio, Texas
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    4,207

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    Quote Originally Posted by WB2WIK View Post
    2-3 Hz? Wow, that would take some incredible filtering...and even CW and PSK31 signals are wider than that.

    I guess you mean kHz.

    Yeah, that's pretty close.

    But remember, sometimes you're in a place where you'll hear guys 2 kHz up and 2 kHz down, but they may not hear each other due to their locations. "QRM happens," and we try to deal with it.

    I find my PBT (passband tuning) a valuable aid in rejecting stuff; I also can pick almost any IF selectivity I want via DSP, so if 2.7 kHz is too wide, I go to 2.4 or 2.1 or 1.8 or whatever. No limit to what IF-DSP can do. On the bands above 30 meters, I have beams and they can also be helpful in rejecting interference (point towards the station you want to hear, and hopefully null out ones you don't). All sorts of "tools" in the toolbox.

    The TS-2000 isn't the greatest, mostly because it's a pretty old design now. But it's not the worst, either. If you updated the rig to a TS-590S you'd probably notice a pretty big difference in "rejectability" features.
    A quiet big difference. I own a 590 and at our club house we have a TS-2000 that we use for some contest, etc. The 590 has much better rejectability of nearby signals.

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