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Thread: Hams -- File Written Testimony on HOA Restrictions!!

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  1. #11

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    Hi Guys.
    having just read this , and hailing form the UK I have one comment ; maybe you should use the good old british way and tell the HOA to go F@*K itself.
    Same as Been doing for the local councils here for many a year.....
    If you are a Ham you need an antenna of some sort...some folks complain about everything...you can have drug dealing , prostitution , anti social behaviour in your neighbourhood and no one cares ...but just put up a Ham antenna and watch 'em go......

    Regards Des G4OBB

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by G4OBB View Post
    ...tell the HOA to go F@*K itself.
    Do that here (and probably there) and at the very least, a board meeting and a fine. At worst, a lien on your property, eviction, and a few years in court, spending 1000s of dollars that could have gone toward new ham gear. Or moving out.
    vy 73, de frank, k2ncc

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by N7WR View Post
    Sorry, and I know this won't make me popular with many, but using amateur radio Emcomm as a justification for over-riding HOA Covenants ( mutual agreements that the buyer signed in to) is a less than honest justification. Yes, amateurs do provide emergency communications but the vast majority of that is NOT conducted from one's place of residence. I can appreciate that some hams have little if any choice over where they live---jobs tend to dictate that. And, I realize that in some places finding housing w/o HOA's is difficult. But having lived in such circumstances I always found it possible to get on the air (HF, VHF and UHF) and "work the world" on HF. VHF/UHF was never a problem and, frankly, that is what most Emcomm consists of. Life's a b---- and we don't always get everything we want. HOA's aren't tower and yagi friendly but a well disguised wire can still work the world and that was enough to keep me interested during those few years I was HOA restricted.

    I hate to see amateur radio's Emcomm role exaggerated and/or used as a false justification for anythng. It cheapens the service and cheapens Emcomm in particular.
    You need to rethink some of your statements. I have been in Areas where nothing worked, cell towers out phone and power lines out VHF-UHF out and suppose you have uhf/uhf you can't use it cause of the restrictions.Then all communications are down. i do not know why ham radio operators can't stick together in times they are needed. We are loosing a hobby cause of HOA'S and other laws doing away with the whole radio systems. Hard to buy or get a place to live except in a slum area,and that too is dangerous to ham radio thefts. Thank You mark
    MARK WIDERSTROM

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by N5UOA View Post
    You need to rethink some of your statements. ...
    Wow, talk about someone needing to give more thought to their statements. Your pretty blue paragraph was full of reconsideration to be had.

    First, how did we ever manage to live in an emergency without amateur radio? In my 46 years, and at least 10 different driver's licenses, thankfully I've never been in a situation where I couldn't get in touch with someone. Perhaps it was because I was prepared. Even without a radio.

    Second, V/UHF restrictions are probably the least of our worries. You don't need much of an antenna and can hide 20" just about anywhere. It's the HF guys in CC&Rs who have it bad. Even hamsticks are 7' long.

    Next, we're losing a hobby 'cause of HOAs? I doubt it. Heck, we're up 100k from when I started in 2005. Laws aren't doing away with radio systems, just forcing us to be more clever.

    And lastly, what's this about hard to buy a place except in a slum area? I think that's a statement from the heart more than the mind. I had my share of poor and posh, yet never lived in a CC&R community. Perhaps I was just lucky.
    vy 73, de frank, k2ncc

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Bakersfield, CA
    Posts
    4,455

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    This is my take on this. It's not the folks in the field with the less than adequate equipment that are the problem. These are the folks that are trying to get the message out. The problem, is to make it much more likely that someone will hear that persons calls for assistance. Whether it's for themselves or those around them. That signal has a much better chance of being received by a station properly equipped with a good antenna system. The more stations out there that can field a good antenna the better the odds someone is going to get relief. The more CC&R's encroach upon the amateur and their need for an antenna, the more HOA's are permitted to dictate what can and cannot be done the lower the odds are that the message will successfully make it through. Disasters do not happen often and that's a good thing but what does happen often is the amateur practicing their communications capability on a daily basis. When the time does come, and we hope it never does, then that amateur will have the knowledge of what their equipment can do at that time and place. They will know for an almost certainty whether their signal can reach into the stricken area. They will know if they would be of assistance or if they should standby and listen without interfering with what is happening. That's what we practice everyday is the capability of our station to communicate. We strive to make it do just a bit better and try to squeeze every little decibel from our equipment. If it ever gets to the point where no improvement is possible then they can rest with the knowledge that if they are needed they will be there.
    Have fun
    73
    Gary
    Last edited by KO6WB; 09-10-2012 at 11:45 AM.

  6. #16

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    I found it very interesting, reading all the previous comments. I read where some called HOA's un-American or said that they violated certain "amendments" to the Constitution, some even called them a rights violation. I'm sure that with some, I am about to be very unpopular.

    To start with Article 1-10 of the bill of rights of the Constitution, for these united states, are not amendments. They were a part of the original Constitution as it was agreed upon and signed. In fact they were so important that the representatives refused to sign until these articles (not amendments) were included. However, the Bill of Rights did not void any other part of the Constitution, such as the prohibition on Congress passing laws which would abridge your right to contract. If Congress passes any law nullifying your poor choice in contract, it will be a violation of the Constitution...a poor understanding of the Constitution, on your part, is apparent here. Rather than expecting the destruction of very important tenants of the Constitution, because you don't have a real grasp of the meaning of right to choice or freedom to contract, I suggest you increase your knowledge base. If you live in a community that has a covenant, and you agreed to it when you purchased there, you have no right to try and circumvent the contract you have with others who bought in the same community. If you don't like the terms of the contract then move and if you can't recoup your investment, knowledge isn't cheap, neither is integrity.
    I purposely moved outside the metro area just so I could have freedom, if that's what you want then you should too. If you aren't willing to make the sacrifice for your freedom then don't ask me to sacrifice my protection, in the Constitution, to make contract. It is the slow erosion of these protections that have led to the state of things here today.

    I do agree that HOA's are very much anathema to the ideas of liberty and freedom, which I was raised to believe to be the backbone of American ideal. However, you have the "right" to live in a community that holds these ideals in contempt if you want. Notice the word "community" as in "commune" or "communist". You chose to live there with full knowledge that these restrictions were imposed on you. If now you have a different philosophy in your life, move....then you will have rights too.

    I have read where some of you pressed the view that HOA's should be banned. That would be a violation of the right to contract, a right protected in the Constitution. I don't agree with the ideals that have brought about these communities, but I do believe that the people who want that lifestyle should be able to live it, if they choose. I know that there are few who understand the real depths of the concepts of liberty and freedom, but I for one believe the right to make bad choices is unalienable and when you make one, you should deal with your choice. Don't try and put it off on someone else. You made the choice nobody twisted your arm, that's freedom. Don't you wish you understood it better before. Now, take responsibility for your actions.

  7. #17

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    Well I know I will be bucking the trend here. I live in a HOA community, and I understand why they have rules that they have. I don't agree with all of them (like antenna's) but they are there for the good of the majority (all the owners). I do believe that some of those that run the HOA's do it to pump up their egos.
    Now with that said. I knew the rules before I moved in. I knew the requirements to get things changed, yet I still bought here. I think using Ecomm is a sham way to get the laws written by Congress to allow antennas, instead getting the rules changed thru the HOA's.
    Sorry you bought knowing the HOA rules, live with it or have it changed.
    US Army Retired and damn Proud of it.
    (EX-WA8VBX,DA1UC,DA2VC,XW8GW,HL9JB)
    "I would rather you just said "thank you," and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest that you pick up a weapon and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to. " A Few Good Men

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Goldsboro NC
    Posts
    423

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    I think that is will boil down to reasonable accommodation. That will be the key. Can you put up a 100 foot tower? No. Can you have wire antennas for HF that are well hidden and almost invisible? I would say yes. Maybe a vertical for VHF and UHF or small beam that is similiar in size to a TV antenna. Things can be done to make it easier. The great thing about ham radio and emergency communications is we are not centralized. While my shack my be off line because of damage my friend Walter may be up and running. He lives several miles from me and issue at my QTH may not be a problem at his.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Leeds, AL
    Posts
    3,883

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    A couple of comments to explain HFA's idea of a truely reasonable accommodation.

    HFA wants nothing more, in terms of CC&R preemptions, than allowance of simple wire antennas or a basic vertical. Don't ask about guys, traps, etc. Just something very basic.

    While not all of us are in agreement, the majority favor just the above for a mandated accommodation. Also, removal of any language prohibiting operation of transmitters from an HOA community. I know, that sounds absurd in light of cell phones, tablets, wireless modems and such, but you have to realize how ignorant the people were/are who proliferate CC&Rs.

    The Subcommittee holding hearings is the likely source of the legislation that required the FCC to conduct a study and prepare a report. A report that many view as having had a predetermined conclusion, as the proceeding 12-91 record comment data was largely ignored with respect to CC&R impact. So, if the amateur community wants to "set the record straight" by at least showing Congress that the FCC report was and is flawed, testimony was and is needed.

    I do not know, at this point, if ARRL will testify. From what I've heard so far, it is not widely known in ARRL circles, one way or the other.

    If any would like a copy of what I sent in, shoot me an email at my call at arrl dot net.
    Last edited by W6EM; 09-10-2012 at 01:10 PM.
    Lee
    W6EM

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by N7WR View Post
    Sorry, and I know this won't make me popular with many, but using amateur radio Emcomm as a justification for over-riding HOA Covenants ( mutual agreements that the buyer signed in to) is a less than honest justification. Yes, amateurs do provide emergency communications but the vast majority of that is NOT conducted from one's place of residence.
    Get real. In some states these HOAs also disallow displaying the american flag or putting up a basic flag pole for the american flag. This is absolutely sick and its a movement with the US to take away many Freedoms. Is this so we don't hurt someones feelings that was born elsewhere? Its the result of flawed thinking.

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