Hams -- File Written Testimony on HOA Restrictions!!

[K2NCC]

... I just didn't see any need to go thru the whole business all over again.

But dozens of others posters to this thread do, or haven't seen the others of which you speak. It's the first I've ever spoken on it.

I wish people would use the energy they waste... do something about the situation...

Hopefully, with as much passion as you have, you're doing as you preach.
(Other than bitching at us bitching about it!)

[N4UM]

But dozens of others posters to this thread do, or haven't seen the others of which you speak. It's the first I've ever spoken on it.

Hopefully, with as much passion as you have, you're doing as you preach.
(Other than bitching at us bitching about it!)

Forgive me for bragging but... Yes, I've done a lot more than bitch and preach. In fact, I've never really preached but have directed my comments at those in a position to make changes. I sent comments to the ARRL. I sent 8 pages of formal comments to the FCC. I started an online petition to the FCC and Congress that's received over 3300 signatures. I've written to all the members of both the House and Senate subcommittees that are involved with the issue and more recently submitted written testimony via W6EM's original suggestions at the start of this thread. I've repeatedly urged others to get involved beyond simply bitching in online forums such as this one. I can't think of anything else I could realistically do to put forth my point of view to those that matter. If we lose this one I will lose no sleep over it because I honestly believe I've done pretty much everything that I can do. I wonder how many others who have shot their mouths off about the need to get HOAs to make reasonable accomodations for amateur antennas can say as much.

End of brag tape!

[AC7DX]

HOAs tick me off because they get on their high horse and try to control life on your own property.
Don't get me wrong, I want to keep a good neighborhood. But nobody tells me I can't put a radio tower on my own property.
No one tells me I can't fly the American flag on my own property (which I seem to hear a lot about on the news).
Sure, we don't want trashy yards. But neither should they freak out when one homeowner's grass gets a bit too high (because he's away on an extended vacation, sick in bed with an extended illness, or working so much overtime that he simply can't handle it right now). To have code enforcement pay a visit for something like that is ridiculous.
I'd go with a covenant that said that mobile homes were prohibited in the neighborhood.
But I won't tolerate an HOA trying to run my life or manage my property.





Fred, WB4AEJ

Dont live in an HOA then...simple....

[AC7DX]

THIS is but one example of a "condo" in the Greater Los Angeles Area. Some call it their "home" -- and it may well be just that (to ME it is just a glorified APARTMENT BUILDING); however, to OSME it is the "NORM" of today -- their HOME.

HOW could you erect any sort of antenna without the so-called "beauty" (to some Gen-X minds) of such a massive building being changed? These are massive multi-story "homes" being sold for ridiculous prices and just because someone becomes an "amateur" after purchasing surely should NOT mean they ignore the agreement they signed when purchasing.


SO ........ I down-size and buy one of these --- smaller -- not bad looking, but to ME it still LOOKS LIKE and APARTMENT I might have lived in when I was young.
OH wait! It has a BALCONY! SO now I want to erect a "wire antenna" ....even though it will be visible to everyone who lives in the place! It changes the LOOKS of what they bought! How am I any better than those who do NOT want wires and poles running all over the front of THEIR HOME? I see the "ham view" -- I also see the "view" of NON-hams who don't want their HOME looking like a jungle of wire. Some say the wire is "invisible" -- but THAT is just a HAMS view; the REAL WORLD sees ALL the wires. The 'addition' to THEIR HOME is understandably NOT welcome.

HAMS see ONE point of view! Color it whatever color you choose - but HAMS in the position of having to abide by HOA's / CCR's ARE SELFISH! They feel 'special' and in spite of being aware of a restrictions WILLINGLY PURCHASE anyway!

Let's SEE both sides of the coin --- DISAGREE with the HOA's --- but getting the GOVERNMENT INVOLVED in thses situations can not possibly be be productive. NON-HAMS have RIGHTS TOO! If I bought one of the "homes" and then saw Harry-Ham erecting wires all over the place I would be livid! MY RIGHTS were trampled because of the potential of an "emergency" needing this "ham" to communicate? "Hogwash" , says the NON-HAM! We live in the middle of a MASSIVE CITY and IF this "ham" is my sole way of communicating with the world ..... we ALL are in VERY VERY DEEP 'POOP'!

IF you REALLY want to communicate with WIRE ANTENNAS (as seems to be the contention of MOST who agree) --- that VERY WIRE CAN BE ERECTED POST-EMERGENCY in LESS THAN 15 MINUTES! The "emergency need" used to justify the nullification of HOA's / CCR's is full of holes! It IS self-serving and those who want to void the contract they signed are selfish; they do NOT care if their neighbor must look at wires or 100 foot towers! They want what they want because ...... "they are better" than the other guy!

SO ........ BUY THIS "CONDO" ........ in the middle of 3 acres and let the non-ham live likewise!

I'm sorry ........... but even HAMS KNOW that SOME OTHER HAMS CAN BE VERY VERY SELFISH and use ANY potential of an "emergency" to suit their own special "needs"! I DO NOT AGREE WITH - NOR WOULD I LIVE UNDER THE CONTROL OF A 'HOA and associated CC&R's"; however, if YOU bought knowing they existed -- you have only the guy in the mirror to blame! Don't gripe AFTER THE FACT --- just walk away and buy elsewhere! Do NOT say, "I HAD TO BUY IT" - because you did NOT! Should you become a ham AFTER BUYING ..... others should NOT have to give up THEIR RIGHTS to ACCOMMODATE YOURS!

I wonder just how many hams are in HOA's compared to over a few hundred thousand who are not effected?
It appears that Hams bought in to a HOA and now have buyers remorse and are using this as an out. If you are in a HOA and concerned...put a damn mobile in your car or set one ready for an emergency and piss off

[W6PDL]

I moved several times in my life but alway struggled with the HOA insanity. I literally found it impossible to find a house in many areas without having to move miles out of town becasue EVERY neighborhood had antena restricting HOA's. I DID NOT HAVE A CHOICE! One HOA doc forbade the "emination of an RF signal from your home!" So techincally, you could get sued for using a cell phone!

This has become a scourge on ham radio and those that want to enjoy their homes and their hobby. Frankly, it is right up there with racial discrimination. "Oh, you can't put up one of those things!" "You're not welcome in our neighborhood!" But to the point, the ability to assure good communications when conditions are poor requires a good antenna. Period!

The enjoyment and quality demonstration of our World Class hobby to the next generation is severely damaged by the HOA nonsense. Once a few builders started using them it became a fad. After all, it is just one more little piece of paper to sign. Another bullet point to close the sale. The primary reason for antenna restrictions was due to TVI which really got neighbors fuming. But with cable and Satellite that problem is no more.

As to personal freedom, I like to see antennas and figure out what their operating frequencies and radiation parterns are. They are asthetic to me. They are sceintifc marvels that the trained mind can appreciate. On the rare ocaasion of an antenna sighting, I tell my grandchildren what they are, what they do and how they do it. They are learning science!

Dale, W6PDL

[K9HZ]

A lot of the posters are not thinking out of the box. My HOA says NO ANTENNAS WHAT-SO-EVER. I'd be willing to go to great lengths to make things work for me and the HOA... like an automated tower system that only extends above my roof-line when the sun is down and otherwise it's not visible.... or by some pre-determined arrangement to extend it so that I can work contests on specific weekends. OR... I'd even have designed and installed an ergo antenna (one that looks like a palm tree or flag pole) at great expense. But no dice. Right now, I have to errect my island hopping station Superantennas YP3 antenna and portable tower on the weekends just to participate in a contest or talk to friends. Ok it's something but not much... and to think I'm the only person within miles that has a real 100kw generator with auto transfer switch for my house that I can use in an emergency (like during a hurricane). Oh the GENERATOR was ok by the HOA because you can't see it behind the wall of shrubs I installed.

AND FOR THOSE WHO SAY "I want my congress man working on the economy FIRST...." Yeah, sure. I want that too, but it aint gonna happen until after the elections. Everyone knows that. Wish all you want.

[N1DVJ]

Sorry, and I know this won't make me popular with many, but using amateur radio Emcomm as a justification for over-riding HOA Covenants ( mutual agreements that the buyer signed in to) is a less than honest justification....

I have to agree.

Yeah, HOAs can be a pain, but DON'T WHINE AFTER YOU SIGN!!

What about "Does the typical home buyer even know what 70-90 pages of often forgotten-to-be- presented at closing papers amount to?" EVERY property I've bought, EVER, I've always put statements into the offer that ALL restrictions and covenants must be disclosed and the offer is conditional on NO restrictions on an antenna installation. And I've made similar statements in the formal purchase and sale agreement.

Like I said, DON'T WHINE AFTER YOU SIGN!!

But you know what? I've run into restrictions on trailers and campers, unlicensed cars, and above ground pools, but NEVER against antennas. Ran into permitting issues, but never a blanket restriction. In fact, at one house my neighbor was a ham and wanted to put up a tower. Permitting was a bit painful and tedious, but went through. Then when the base was inspected and about to be poured the inspector said "you know, you made it a bit bigger than needed. If you do xxxxx it would be good for xxxx feet" and at that point jumped into the hole and started helping us 'improve' the hole. And this antenna eventually went to 110+ feet. For a while. What eventually got him was insurance. He had a nice little home on a postage stamp lot, and the 'fall zone' for the antenna actually covered 7 houses. Not lots, houses...

As to the arguments like "I have been in Areas where nothing worked" Come on!!! You mean you can't just shove up a 1/4 wave for 2M? Are you that daft? Or just an appliance operator that needs a factory antenna on a store built structure? Or string an emergency HF wire?? If the damage was that great, you'd have to be putting stuff up after the event anyway. And face facts, are you going to be running the county EMCOM from your home?

As someone said, look at the 'BIG picture'. And that says with just a little bit of preparedness you CAN help if it came to that. And WITHOUT trying to set up your own home EMCOMM center (ok, be honest, that's what you want, right?). As ham operators we CAN be there offering assistance when needed. But the key phrase is 'offering assistance', not the whacker mentality of "I'm here for EMCOMM, get out of the way!".

The 'nothing works' is the kind of argument I hear from some of the traffic net people who have never passed traffic except on a repeater...

Trying to get legal justification for voiding HOAs and covenants, in my opinion, is going to fail anyway. And when it does, ham radio will also have to deal with the loss of face AND from the backlash from all the EMCOMM BS claims that are going to be made by all the whackers and whacker-wannabees.

[N7SGM]

My HOA says NO ANTENNAS WHAT-SO-EVER.

"No antennas what so ever" Really??? Not even TV antennas. If they won't allow any type of antenna then they are at least true to their word.

But nevertheless, these HOA's with their rediculous CC & R's gotta go. It has always made me wonder how all the kind of stuff got started. Do you think people really need all that constant direction in their lives that they can't live without all the rules??? That is truly sad. They must have had super bad experiences in their previous neighborhoods to fall for the direction of an HOA.

[N2ZNC]

This has become a scourge on ham radio and those that want to enjoy their homes and their hobby. Frankly, it is right up there with racial discrimination.
Dale, W6PDL

I just want to make sure I read that right, you're comparing putting up huge antennas and towers for a "HOBBY", just as important as the issue of "Racial Discrimination"..?? Please tell me that , that comment was simply a slip of your keyboard..

Comparing "antenna/tower restrictions" to a "PERSONAL FREEDOM" is alittle on the excessive side and bordering on the ridiculous side, dont you think...

I do think this topic has sort of been killed..

So this time last year, 10M was hopping, whats going on with the bands??

George

[K8MHZ]

Hmm.....

I have read this entire thread and still do not see how HOA's inhibit emergency communications.

I was an assistant EC for a half dozen years or so. I don't think we ever did a drill where we had to have someone in a house with a big tower as part of the scenario.

To me, it looks like hams are using emergency communications as an excuse to get their way to play radio in spite of a contract. What will happen once that cat is out of the bag?

Here is the deal. I got into ham radio to give back to my community. We have many parades and the like and in 1994 all the communications for those were done by hams. Those hams were the ARES/RACES members using those events to keep trained and assure equipment functionality. For the first 10 years of my license, all I cared about was emergency communications. Then I got my general and started to actually play and work the world.

I lived near an airport in an upper middle class neighborhood. I didn't want my antennas to be seen, so all my HF antennas were wire dipoles strung through the trees. My VHF-UHF was a commercial antenna and was the only one visible from the street and it actually looked nice and not out of place.

There were no HOAs. I just didn't want an antenna farm.

That set up was all I needed to do emcomm as 99.9 percent was done with portable or mobile radios. An HOA would not have affected my work with ARES/RACES one iota and I don't know of a single person it would have.

I also managed to work the world during the last solar minimum with that set up. I got 100's of cards in a relatively short period of time and worked countries I had never heard of before.

Towers are not needed to play ham radio or to work emcomm. With the exception of repeater and portable towers.

The truth of the matter is that hams don't like HOA's because they can't play with their toys the way they want to. In spite of those that say it has everything to do with emcomm it really has nothing to do with it. Eventually that will be realized and may just backfire on those that present that case.