Are we all being fooled about baluns?

[K1DNR]

There are a few things people use BalUns for. In fact, I think the term is probably misused quite often - when "choke" or "transformer" might be more appropriate.

1 - to cause equal and opposite currents to be fed when there is a junction between an unbalanced and a balanced device.

2 - to transform an impedance

3 - as a common mode choke

4 - changes in phase (perhaps)

You can't really make *any* statement about "baluns" unless you are talking about a particular objective. The terms current or voltage balun don't universally apply.

You have to have an objective and application. Nobody who knows anything ever said use a current balun for everything.

If you are trying to balance current between an unbalanced sourced and a balanced load, yes a current balun would be the right choice. That is *one* application.

[VK4FUQ]

G'day all, my definition is 'what works well and properly does the job in the real world'. Blame my Aspie 'black and white' perceptions perhaps, but that is what matters most to me. Regards, Felix vk4fuq.

[K1DNR]

G'day all, my definition is 'what works well and properly does the job in the real world'. Blame my Aspie 'black and white' perceptions perhaps, but that is what matters most to me. Regards, Felix vk4fuq.

http://vk1od.net/balun/concept/VoltageCurrent.htm

No crap or doggie doo.

[VK4FUQ]

G'day mate, I have no argument with Owen's article, however in the 'real world' away from all the theory I simply find voltage baluns seem to work better for me, for some reason. Regards, Felix vk4fuq.

[K1DNR]

G'day mate, I have no argument with Owen's article, however in the 'real world' away from all the theory I simply find voltage baluns seem to work better for me, for some reason. Regrds, Felix vk4fuq.

Work better for what? If a real voltage balun has no common mode impedance, it won't choke any current. It will do an impedance transformation if that is what it was designed for.

[VK4FUQ]

G'day mate, as I've said right at the start I am only interested in assembling an efficient transmission line/ antenna system overall.

I have pretty well always used tuned balanced lines in conjuction with my Dentron T-match ATU with a 4:1 balun on the output side of my ATU feeding the balanced line.

At least in my QTH, 4:1 voltage baluns seem to perform the best, and yes I have tried the suggested 1:1 current mode balun in this application and found it not as good as a 4:1 voltage balun. Regards, Felix vk4fuq.

[K1DNR]

G'day mate, as I've said right at the start I am only interested in assembling an efficient transmission line/ antenna system overall.

I have pretty well always used tuned balanced lines in conjuction with my Dentron T-match ATU with a 4:1 balun on the output side of my ATU feeding the balanced line.

At least in my QTH, 4:1 voltage baluns seem to perform the best, and yes I have tried the suggested 1:1 current mode balun in this application and found it not as good as a 4:1 voltage balun. Regards, Felix vk4fuq.

What is the impedance on the intended frequency at the input to the balanced line where you connect it to the tuner? If it is a very high impedance, the 4:1 would work better - whether it was a voltage OR current type balun.

Am I correct that you are comparing a 4:1 voltage and 1:1 current balun? And the impedance is unknown?

Yes, its within reason your 4:1 would work better and be easier to match with the ATU, but it depends on the actual impedances at the input to the balanced line on the frequencies you use.

You are comparing apples and pears if I hear you correctly.

The big question is, what is the impedance? (input, Zin of the balanced line) (on each freq of interest)

[KM1H]

G'day all, my definition is 'what works well and properly does the job in the real world'. Blame my Aspie 'black and white' perceptions perhaps, but that is what matters most to me. Regards, Felix vk4fuq.

OK, youre getting repetitive and boring, go have some Vegamite and come back when you can actually provide some real data for peer review.

Ive never bought a current balun but all the ones Ive made solved all the various problems I was having without a balun or with Hy-Gain and KLM voltage baluns which I easily destroyed with 1200W.

And yes many of the commercial ones are pure overpriced rip offs as is buying ferrite from Amidon. Mouser carries several of the better ones for baluns including the 2.4" diameter Mix 31.

Also a sleeve type or other current balun does its work by blocking/choking the RF on the outer shield. If the ferrites dont get warm you likely didnt need them in the first place or you went way oversize.

Carl

[VK4FUQ]

G'day mate, if I'm getting boring I'm sorry, and by the way I hate Vegemite!

Yes, I did try a 1:1 choke (current mode) balun in an ATU tuned line application as suggested by G3TXQ in this article: http://www.karinya.net/g3txq/tuner_balun/ and it did not work as desired.

Ok then, I'll disappear, but for me, the 'real world' works everytime! Regards, Felix vk4fuq.

[KM1H]

G'day mate, if I'm getting boring I'm sorry, and by the way I hate Vegemite!

At least we agree on that. During my 6 months doing a major network install in all states plus Norfolk Island I was endlessly prodded to try some. Even loaded to the gills with good Aussie beer I still spit it out!

Carl