The Bismarck Vs The HMS Hood

[N2EY]

I pointed out that his answer was incorrect and that the US and Germany declared war on each ohter the same day, Dec 11th 1941.
Germany declared war on the US at 9:30 am in Berlin when Ribbentrop had his letter delivered to our Charge de Affaires. A copy of that letter was delivered to our state department at 9:30 am DC time the same day. The congress passed the declaration of war the same day be it US time or German time.

Be that as it may it's debatable whether the US or Germany declared first.

I don't see how it's debatable who declared war first. By your own accounting, the US declaration was in response to Germany's declaration.

Roosevelt declared open warfare on all German naval vessels in September 1941 and again confirmed these orders in October of that year. Two months before Pearl Harbor the US Navy was making war on the German Navy.

Because Germany attacked first:

From Wikipedia:

"Later that year [1941] a German submarine fired on the U.S. destroyer Greer and Roosevelt declared that the U.S. Navy would assume an escort role for Allied convoys in the Atlantic as far east as Great Britain and would fire upon German ships or submarines (U-boats) of the Kriegsmarine if they entered the U.S. Navy zone. This "shoot on sight" policy effectively declared Naval war on Germany and was favored by Americans by a margin of 2-to-1."

Was FDR wrong? Should he have not done that?

73 de jim, N2EY

[KI4NGN]

Wow, what a Sight!
I would hate to be on the other ends of those Guns!

From what old-timers told me when I first joined the Navy in 1971, being on the firing end was not a pleasant place to be either.

[K9STH]

0H:

The United States declared war on Germany as a direct response to the Germans declaring war on the United States. As such, the Germans definitely declared war first. Although Franklin Roosevelt was definitely in favor of declaring war on Germany public opinion was not in favor of doing so. Since the Japanese had attacked Pearl Harbor before a formal declaration of war was delivered (the Japanese embassy in Washington, DC, had problems decoding the message to declare war and then to get the message typed and therefore the declaration of war was delayed for several hours), the general population of the United States was wanting all out war on Japan and not Germany. There definitely was a large minority in the United States that favored Germany over Great Britain and that would have at least delayed the declaration of war on Germany. However, since Germany declared war on the United States first, the influence of those persons was negated.

Many historians believe that Hitler made 2-decisions that eventually resulted in his downfall. The first was Operation Barbarosa in which he attacked the Soviet Union. The second was his declaring war on the United States. Had Germany not declared war on 11 December 1941, open conflict between the United States and Germany would probably have been delayed for at least a year. Eventually, the United States would have been drawn into the war with Germany but not as soon as it actually happened.

Glen, K9STH

[KA7NIQ]

I don't see how it's debatable who declared war first. By your own accounting, the US declaration was in response to Germany's declaration.



Because Germany attacked first:

From Wikipedia:

"Later that year [1941] a German submarine fired on the U.S. destroyer Greer and Roosevelt declared that the U.S. Navy would assume an escort role for Allied convoys in the Atlantic as far east as Great Britain and would fire upon German ships or submarines (U-boats) of the Kriegsmarine if they entered the U.S. Navy zone. This "shoot on sight" policy effectively declared Naval war on Germany and was favored by Americans by a margin of 2-to-1."

Was FDR wrong? Should he have not done that?

73 de jim, N2EY

There you go again Jim. Wikipedia reflects what the winners of the War had to say. I am quite sure had Germany or Japan won the war, we would be reading a different version of "history".
In fact, try reading Soviet war history, and remember this.
Japan ONLY surrendered when it saw the Red Army about to pounce on them.
Japanese war advisors to the Emperor told him there was "No Way" America had any more of these super bombs.

[N2EY]

There you go again Jim. Wikipedia reflects what the winners of the War had to say. I am quite sure had Germany or Japan won the war, we would be reading a different version of "history".

Because the history would be different.

What facts have I posted that are not true?

Simply questioning things for the sake of questioning them isn't intellectual investigation.

In fact, try reading Soviet war history, and remember this.
Japan ONLY surrendered when it saw the Red Army about to pounce on them.

Sorry, that was a minor factor.

Nagasaki, Hiroshima, the firebombings of many other Japanese cities and slow but inevitable destruction of the IJN and IJA were the main factors. Hirohito finally realized that the Allies - primarily the USA - would simply keep on bombing, burning and invading until there was no Japan left at all.

Japanese war advisors to the Emperor told him there was "No Way" America had any more of these super bombs.

Where did you get that idea?

The fact is that after Nagasaki it would have taken a couple of months, at most, to assemble more A-bombs. Meanwhile, the firebombs would continue to do a similar job.

Look up what the firebombings were like, how destructive they were, and how many people died in them. Look up how few supplies were getting through to Japan in 1945 because Allied subs and planes were sinking so many transports. Etc.

If you're going to question history, it's a good idea to at least know what you're questioning.

73 de Jim, N2EY

[KA7NIQ]

If you're going to question history, it's a good idea to at least know what you're questioning.

73 de Jim, N2EY

Looks like I read and hear different versions of history then you do Jim ?
I am quite familiar with where you are getting your facts from. They are facts only if you accept them as such.
Neither one of us was there when things transpired.
So neither one of us knows what REALLY happened.

[AJ4CU]

It so happens the last remaining Fairy Swordfish was due to fly this afternoon down the Thames while HM the Queen was escorted down the river by a thousand vessels but as usual the weather was dreadful and the flight was cancelled Low cloud also caused the cancellation of a flyover by the Red Arrows.

The Swordfish wasn't antique, it was an aircraft used on the aircraft carriers of the day, perhaps it might be said that many of the aircraft used were antique, there were also Gloster Gladiators, also biplanes which defended Malta against air attacks by Italian and German aircraft, called Paith Hope and Charity.

HMS Hood was no match against the Bismarck or the Scharnhorst and this is why they spent years chasing this powerful ship all over the Atlantic. What caused the downfall of this ship was the rudder was damaged which meant that is was going round in a circle of a half mile or so radius which made it easier to destroy.

The Royal Navy didn't want it saved, they wanted it on the seabed out of harms way, like the General Belgrano. One thing you can always guarentee with the British our leaders and military are only ever a few minutes away from WW2, reading our papers one would get the impression that Hitler still lives. Its about time we forgot about WW2

Mel G0GQK

Hi Mel,

Was it not but a few days till the fleet merged and opened fire on the Bismarck, not years as you state...also the other ship with the Bismarck when she broke out was the Prinz Eurgen (check spelling) a heavy cruiser, not the Scharnhorst..

[KI4NGN]

Looks like I read and hear different versions of history then you do Jim ?
I am quite familiar with where you are getting your facts from. They are facts only if you accept them as such.
Neither one of us was there when things transpired.
So neither one of us knows what REALLY happened.

Except for the Japanese who survived the war and have been interviewed many times since?

[KG4RRH]

Except for the Japanese who survived the war and have been interviewed many times since?

Personally, I preferred the mountains of original documents Gordie Prange put together.

[KI4NGN]

Personally, I preferred the mountains of original documents Gordie Prange put together.

Which came from who? Thos I mentioned. I know you know that, just making it explicit. The other op seems to doubt what is established fact, not opinions.