Tokyo Hy-Power HL-550FX TR Switching ?

[N4UP]

I looked through the old Tokyo Hy-Power HL-550 thread now closed, but no one talked about noise.

I am trying to decide on an amplifier to replace my Ameritron ALS600S which has VERY loud TR switching. I understand the Elecraft KPA500 is quiet but the dealer I plan to return the ALS to doesn't carry the Elecraft. They do carry the Yaesu Quad and the Tokyo Hy-Power HL-550FX. I read many reviews of the Yaesu Quad and many reviewers say it is very noisy. I am mostly concerned with TR noise ( the ALS is so noisy at 13 wpm that even with headphones I can't focus on my CW keying ( nothing worse than one's own sloppy keying )).

So Question #1 is --- Is the Tokyo amp TR switching noisy?? And Question #2 is what about Tokyo amp fan noise?

[N4UP]

I sent an email to Tokyo Hy-Power ( Japan ) asking about TR switching noise and received a very prompt and helpful reply from their General Manager, Nobuki, JA1DJW. Based on what he said, and from reading reviews, I am now planning on replacing my Ameritron ALS-600S and MFJ -998 with the Tokyo-Hy-Power HL-1.5FX and HC-1.5AT

[WB2WIK]

[COLOR=#000080]I looked through the old Tokyo Hy-Power HL-550 thread now closed, but no one talked about noise.

I am trying to decide on an amplifier to replace my Ameritron ALS600S which has VERY loud TR switching. I understand the Elecraft KPA500 is quiet but the dealer I plan to return the ALS to doesn't carry the Elecraft. They do carry the Yaesu Quad and the Tokyo Hy-Power HL-550FX. I read many reviews of the Yaesu Quad and many reviewers say it is very noisy. I am mostly concerned with TR noise ( the ALS is so noisy at 13 wpm that even with headphones I can't focus on my CW keying ( nothing worse than one's own sloppy keying )).

I'm surprised this is an issue as people who work at 13 wpm (and even most who work at 20-25 wpm) aren't using "full QSK" anyway, and set their drop-out "semi-QSK" selection to be long enough that the relays will never click at all except when sending the first dit or dah, and then after the end of a transmission -- or at least the end of a sentence. Setting the dropout delay to about 1.5 or 2 seconds will accomplish that.

Most "full QSK" ops are higher speed and if they use amps, they need to use "full QSK" amps, which are special. Most full QSK amps have a keying line input and output, and when you key the rig, that keys the amp first before transmitting any RF; when you lift the key, the RF stops first and then the amp switches. This all happens in just milliseconds, so you don't notice it happening; but if this approach is not used and you "hot key" the amp (apply the keying signal and the RF energy at the same moment) that can be quite exciting.

[KO6WB]

Hi Peter, whew....for a moment I thought you were going with the HL-550FX. That would have been a gain of 4.5db or not even a S unit. To realize any improvement that would be noticable you would need to go for legal limit.
As for the HC-1.5AT there are other tuners that can handle the power and tune quickly as well as have a much wider range of tuning capability. The HC-1.5AT can handle SWR up to 4:1. This is a better figure than most of the ATUs in the rigs. They can handle up to 3:1.
I sure wish you could put up a really nice antenna but you have to work with what you've got.
Sometimes not being able to do these things yourself anymore is a good reason to buy the best things out there. I'm still not up to that capability and the way it looks I won't get there either but I did go and buy a Kenwood TS-590S. It's an upgrade from the TS-50S I was running. That little rig is actually not a bad unit.
Okay Peter hope you are having a really good time with your setup.
Hope to hear you on the air soon.
73
Gary

[N4UP]

I'm surprised this is an issue as people who work at 13 wpm (and even most who work at 20-25 wpm) aren't using "full QSK" anyway, and set their drop-out "semi-QSK" selection to be long enough that the relays will never click at all except when sending the first dit or dah, and then after the end of a transmission -- or at least the end of a sentence. Setting the dropout delay to about 1.5 or 2 seconds will accomplish that.

Most "full QSK" ops are higher speed and if they use amps, they need to use "full QSK" amps, which are special. Most full QSK amps have a keying line input and output, and when you key the rig, that keys the amp first before transmitting any RF; when you lift the key, the RF stops first and then the amp switches. This all happens in just milliseconds, so you don't notice it happening; but if this approach is not used and you "hot key" the amp (apply the keying signal and the RF energy at the same moment) that can be quite exciting.

For sure I for one very much appreciate the knowledge and insight shared. But I am also a bit embarrassed because I hadn't spent enough time with my new rig to realize that I could set the CW delay time. I had made sure I set the rig to semi-break-in because I knew the ALS-600 would not work QSK without the QSK-5 accessory that I didn't have. Perhaps in setting the delay time this noise problem goes away. But I am still planning to trade-up to the KW THP amplifier and tuner, but now for different reasons.

Now, not trying to make excuses, but just trying to live with my limitations. I suffered a massive head injury ( with neck and back issues ) in 2005 and nearly died. I seem to have healed quickly but there are subtle "limitations" that I did not realize until much later. For instance, CW. When I got my extra class license in 1970 I had no trouble at all sending and receiving 25 wpm, had a full legal-limit QSK system, routinely worked a lot of CW traffic ( South Carolina, 4th region, and eastern area nets ). NOW, years off the air, I figured I would start out at 13 wpm and work my way back up to 20-25 wpm. So semi-break-in is probably good enough for me. BUT. Once I started practicing with my electronic keyer I realized that I no longer have the physical or mental dexterity to send and receive at the higher speeds. I am still hoping to get to 20 wpm, but the fact is that my hand and fingers just don't respond as quickly as they used to, and that means I have to be very focused on the characters I am sending ( I REALLY don't want to be sloppy ). That's why I was initially concerned about the TR switching noise. I simply could not focus with the noise, even with my wearing good headphones. Also I can't keep "received" characters in my head, I have to write everything down or I lose focus. I love CW and plan to work CW most of the time, but I have to find ways to make it easy for me to do so ( and I will NOT buy a device to translate the code for me, if indeed they work reliably ) ( I may utilize the memory functions of the keyer to send routine or contest information, but I still need to be able to send "cleanly" at 13-20 wpm ( I am sort of painfully accepting 20 wpm as a physical limit ).

SO. Hopefully tomorrow I will accomplish the trade-up and have the new amp and tuner hooked up by the weekend. I will still be limited to 200 watts until I upgrade the antenna, but that's another story.

[N4UP]

Hi Peter, whew....for a moment I thought you were going with the HL-550FX. That would have been a gain of 4.5db or not even a S unit. To realize any improvement that would be noticable you would need to go for legal limit.
As for the HC-1.5AT there are other tuners that can handle the power and tune quickly as well as have a much wider range of tuning capability. The HC-1.5AT can handle SWR up to 4:1. This is a better figure than most of the ATUs in the rigs. They can handle up to 3:1.
I sure wish you could put up a really nice antenna but you have to work with what you've got.
Sometimes not being able to do these things yourself anymore is a good reason to buy the best things out there. I'm still not up to that capability and the way it looks I won't get there either but I did go and buy a Kenwood TS-590S. It's an upgrade from the TS-50S I was running. That little rig is actually not a bad unit.
Okay Peter hope you are having a really good time with your setup.
Hope to hear you on the air soon.
73
Gary

Thanks, Gary. Yes, I am going for the HL-1.5KFX and not the HL-50FX. In part because of the power, in part because I need to give the dealer an incentive to take back the ALS-600 and MFJ-998. I am more confident on "integration" between the Yaesu, the THP amp, and the THP tuner. Since I can no longer readily "fix" things I need something that is easy to hook up and is reliable. And no disrespect intended to the folks at Ameritron and MFJ, but so far they are unresponsive, while THP is very responsive.

I have been very fortunate financially. Always lived within my means, saved for my kids to go to college, paid off the mortgage before my divorce and retirement. But then two of my three children ended up with scholarships and fellowships and paid their own way through college and graduate schools. And in retiring to NC from the DC area I am simply amazed at the cost of living advantage ( here maybe 50% of the cost of living in the DC area and an improvement in quality of life ). Plus as a retired fed who meets certain criteria, I don't have to pay NC income taxes. So I am spending more on a new radio setup than I would have liked ( I started in 1963 with a Heathkit HR-10 and DX-60 ) but I am hoping it will prove a good psychological investment.

[WB2WIK]

Good luck with the new amp!

But the THL amps are not full QSK either, so even if the relays are quiet you can still burn them up by operating QSK.

Set your DELAY to 1/2 second or 1 second or something to help prevent that.

I only use full QSK when contesting at 40 wpm. For rag chewing, I don't care to hear the receiver come back so often, even if the relays are totally silent.

[N4UP]

Good luck with the new amp!

But the THL amps are not full QSK either, so even if the relays are quiet you can still burn them up by operating QSK.

Set your DELAY to 1/2 second or 1 second or something to help prevent that.

I only use full QSK when contesting at 40 wpm. For rag chewing, I don't care to hear the receiver come back so often, even if the relays are totally silent.

I'm sure you must know this because you have been here for a while, but I'm new to the forums, and I must say they are priceless. A week ago I had read through the Yaesu manual and even looked for a way to set the delay, and missed it. But as soon as YOU mentioned it, somehow it dawned on me that it wasn't a menu setting that I was looking for, but a knob on the transceiver right there in front of me. So now I have no doubts about the new set up, using quieter switches and setting the delay to match my semi-break-in comfort zone. Thank you so much.

[KO6WB]

Ah yes Peter, you're still in the learning curve for that fine rig. It'll take time to get comfortable with everything you want the FTdx5000 to do. You will also find that you can ignore some of the functions or use them so infrequently that the manual will still need to be nearby.
As for sending CW, I can relate to your difficulties but for me it was a different reason. I discovered I have really bad rhythm. Sending CW was really stressful and it was so much work that I was actually exhausted by the end of a QSO. I'm kind of like you on copying and usually write it down. At the FCC exam I was so nervous that my writing was slowing me down. I put my pencil down and found that moment I could copy in my head just fine. The field agents giving the test noticed that I was no longer writing the characters down but when they gave the multipal guess exam I aced it.
Getting back to the sending problems. What I found that returned me to CW and made it very enjoyable was to ditch the straight key and any kind of keyer. I started using a keyboard to send with. It was relaxing and sure some will say just plain lazy but I always felt sorry for those that had to try and copy my fist. It was truly bad. Keyboard was perfect CW and my program could also send the prosigns. The problem with a keyboard is you tend to be much more chatty. You forget to use abrieviated words and instead type out the whole thing. That will make the op at the other end a little ticked. So using a keyboard requires some discipline for me. You may not have that problem. This is just a suggestion and it will relieve the pressure of sending. You can make typos but the characters will always be good to copy.
I know the purist in us says not to use a keyboard but when it comes down to operating or not, then the decision is an easy one.
Hope this helps
73
Gary

[N4UP]

Ah yes Peter, you're still in the learning curve for that fine rig. It'll take time to get comfortable with everything you want the FTdx5000 to do. You will also find that you can ignore some of the functions or use them so infrequently that the manual will still need to be nearby.
As for sending CW, I can relate to your difficulties but for me it was a different reason. I discovered I have really bad rhythm. Sending CW was really stressful and it was so much work that I was actually exhausted by the end of a QSO. I'm kind of like you on copying and usually write it down. At the FCC exam I was so nervous that my writing was slowing me down. I put my pencil down and found that moment I could copy in my head just fine. The field agents giving the test noticed that I was no longer writing the characters down but when they gave the multipal guess exam I aced it.
Getting back to the sending problems. What I found that returned me to CW and made it very enjoyable was to ditch the straight key and any kind of keyer. I started using a keyboard to send with. It was relaxing and sure some will say just plain lazy but I always felt sorry for those that had to try and copy my fist. It was truly bad. Keyboard was perfect CW and my program could also send the prosigns. The problem with a keyboard is you tend to be much more chatty. You forget to use abrieviated words and instead type out the whole thing. That will make the op at the other end a little ticked. So using a keyboard requires some discipline for me. You may not have that problem. This is just a suggestion and it will relieve the pressure of sending. You can make typos but the characters will always be good to copy.
I know the purist in us says not to use a keyboard but when it comes down to operating or not, then the decision is an easy one.
Hope this helps
73
Gary

Gary, thank you, that does help. I had been thinking of using the keyboard as a nice way of filling the keyer memories, and have been exploring various terminal programs. Now I may very well try my luck keying the "Vibroplex" and using the keyboard. I'm glad you mentioned the chatty thing. My "nature" is to spell things out on the keyboard ( when I text my kids they think I am old fashioned, spelling out all the words, while here I am thinking I am actually texting at my age ), so I will have to learn to think-type the way I would send CW. Things like Q-codes should be easy enough, but non-Q-abbreviations I will have to watch for. One nice thing about the terminal program is it works both ways, i.e., it saves everything I am sending, regardless of whether it is from the key or the keyboard, so I can see what I am actually doing and hopefully adjust my habits. I am also thinking most of my CW QSOs will be casual contesting, i.e., trying to work as many stations/places as I can without worrying about my score. But first I need to get the keyer working with my transceiver ( that issue is in another thread ), but I am almost there, two more things to try and if they don't work I will return it for a replacement.

Interesting your FCC license exam experience. I can relate, though for me a different challenge. I was 16 and taking the General Class license, had no problem with the code and felt I knew the "technical" stuff inside and out. This was 1963 and I was living in Charleston SC. Drove to Savannah GA to take the exam. And the examiner gave me an exam dated in the 1940s, and no multiple choices, had to draw diagrams and write out explanatory responses to every question. I was stunned, then panic set in. I flubbed. Went back to retake it after studying some old radio books, and the different examiner gave me a modern ( 1963 ) test and I had no problems. Then when it was time to take the advanced and extra exams in 1970, I went to Atlanta GA instead, and passed each on the first attempt.

In any event, I will surely try both the Vibroplex and the keyboard for sending.

And by the way, today I drove up to Woodbridge VA and bought the Tokyo Hy-Power 1.5K amplifier and 1.5K antenna tuner. They should arrive tomorrow or Thursday ( saves on sales tax to have them shipped ). Then I still have to wait for a new antenna to arrive and be deployed, as my current ( temporary ) antenna cannot handle more than 200 watts.

Of course I am realizing the biggest problem of all ( after a decent antenna ) and that is trying to do so much at once. I have been off the air a long time and now, in a very short period of time, I am buying equipment, hanging antennas, trying to operate the equipment without fully comprehending the manuals, etc. So much has changed since my last rig ( Drake R4C and T4XC ). There are new bands, and even the old bands are different, with SSB in many places where it used to be CW only. So, yes, I am in the learning curve and enjoying it. Two things I have been smart enough to defer until I have the hang of more basic things, namely computerized logging and data modes. Not ready for either of those just yet.