A weird problem

[WB2WIK]

"Original intent" or not, that statement has two major flaws.

1. Half the people operating mobile are talking to stationary operators. How are they going to talk to stationary operators if the stationary operator doesn't use the repeater?
2. A lot of us live in RF-challenged environments. I have mountains surrounding me, and the only contacts I can make are by repeater. With the exception of two ops I know, all of my VHF and UHF contacts are via repeater, as they're impossible to hear simplex.

The VHF and UHF bands rely on repeater operation for a very good reason: in anything other than flat terrain, or where you're not on a mountaintop, the range can be very limited. Even a good radio and antenna can't penetrate a mountain. And let's face it: neighborhoods are getting more and more unfriendly to HF users. My guess is that it won't be long before the only real place to operate HF is from remote bases - which are usually repeaters in their own right.

So for me and for a lot of hams, repeaters are a staple of our communication; without them, there'd literally be no point to me owning a radio.

The "original intent" was based on a Motorola publication in the 1950s, so it's a pretty old original intent. Remember, repeaters were used commercially before hams built or used any (but not by much).

I think the "stationary operators" should limit use of repeaters, but that's just my opinion. I've been surrounded by mountains and worked all over the world on HF, so the unfortunate limitation you describe is really a VHF-UHF problem. "Average" (not down a mine shaft, but just "typical" average-terrain) locations work fine for VHF simplex if you have a good and well elevated antenna: Elevated in terms of height above ground, not above sea level.

I currently have a very "average" VHF location: It's 850' asl, but that's just average terrain or perhaps a bit below average terrain for the area. I have hills 2200' to 4600' high around me, in pretty much every direction. Using a homebrew 2m colinear at sixty feet, fed with LMR400, I can work mobiles on 2m FM simplex who are 40-50 miles away in most directions, almost always. The antenna's doing all the work, since my location certainly isn't.

[WG7X]

"
So for me and for a lot of hams, repeaters are a staple of our communication; without them, there'd literally be no point to me owning a radio.

Ouch! That must really be a bear!

Geeze if VHF/UHF was all there was to my enjoyment, I'd have given up years ago.

I guess that you must live in one of the "HOA" developments or something?

No HF antennas? No interest in HF?

I get on VHF simplex almost every night to ragchew with the locals. We used to do that on ten, but lately it seems to have migrated upwards in frequency. With my small vertical I can do OK out to about 50 miles or so...

If I need to go beyond that, well.. HF is the answer! 80 meters gets you out to 500 miles or so during the day, and allover the globe after nightfall, especially during those cold winter nights. Forty is almost like 80 just better...

HF is where its at for me DX on the higher frequencies and mostly locals on the lower ones. By locals I mean stateside.

I'd hate to have only VHF/UHF...

73 Gary

[WB2WIK]

I'd hate to have only VHF-UHF also, unless I had such an amazing station it would keep me very busy.

Like W5UN's 2m station, which via e.m.e. can work half the world almost any day of the year.

Some guys put up 8 stacked large yagis on 150' towers for 6m, and it keeps them plenty busy because they can work stuff any time of day, every day of the year. But the "average" station can't do that.

HF is easier.

And CW is easier.

When I had to operate from a rented condo for a year, I ran only CW and only HF and made 20-30 contacts a day. It kept me pretty busy even with minimalist antennas.

[KA9JLM]

Sometimes VHF/UHF is all operators can use and there is nothing wrong with that.

The best thing to do would be to upgrade or move where a HF antenna is allowed.

Or taking up Basket Weaving and then no antenna is required.

Then you would be stuck on Echolink. No Thanks.

[WA9ZZZ]

[...]Remember, repeaters were used commercially before hams built or used any (but not by much). [...]

The ARRL's "FM and Repeaters for the Radio Amateur" book describes a repeater system setup by amateurs on the 5m band back in 1932 in Massachusetts. It was manually operated and the modulation was whatever came out of the transmitter (AM and FM). But it performed the basic function of a repeater, receiving on one frequency and retransmitting on another to extend range. Apparently this was quite popular at the time and generated a lot of interest in 5m operation.

[WB2WIK]

The ARRL's "FM and Repeaters for the Radio Amateur" book describes a repeater system setup by amateurs on the 5m band back in 1932 in Massachusetts. It was manually operated and the modulation was whatever came out of the transmitter (AM and FM). But it performed the basic function of a repeater, receiving on one frequency and retransmitting on another to extend range. Apparently this was quite popular at the time and generated a lot of interest in 5m operation.

That's interesting. But fully automatically controlled repeaters (no local operator required) were used commercially before hams had authority to use unmanned, automatically controlled transmitters.

I don't recall when Part 97 was revised to allow that, maybe in the late 50s.

I'm thankful for Motorola, GE and others who made the "taxicab" rigs (which were also used by police/fire/rescue/trains etc) that ultimately became inexpensive surplus so we hams could put them on the amateur bands and have pretty high quality equipment very inexpensively. My first 2m FM rig was a Motorola 80D in the trunk of my 1962 Valiant. Key down, and when the dynamotor spun up the headlights would dim down to about half brightness

I kind of miss those days.

[WB2WIK]

Sometimes VHF/UHF is all operators can use and there is nothing wrong with that.

The best thing to do would be to upgrade or move where a HF antenna is allowed.

Or taking up Basket Weaving and then no antenna is required.

Then you would be stuck on Echolink. No Thanks.

I kind of agree with you. Echolink is not much of a turn-on. It's kind of amateur radio via the internet, and that's what I'm doing right now just typing this message.

VHF can be very exciting and challenging, IMO, and I spent many years working "mostly" VHF weak signal...chasing meteors and the moon, etc. That's the upper end of VHF work, and it's very cool but can be incredibly time consuming and expensive. Workin DX on HF is cheaper and easier.

[WA9ZZZ]

That's interesting. But fully automatically controlled repeaters (no local operator required) were used commercially before hams had authority to use unmanned, automatically controlled transmitters.

I don't recall when Part 97 was revised to allow that, maybe in the late 50s.

It was some time in the '70s that the FCC recognized repeater operation and allowed automatic control. At that time they established repeater station licenses (since done away with). Before that, as far as the FCC was concerned, amateur radio repeaters were just base stations, usually with remote control and an operator at the control point at all times. The operator did not have to key the transmitter for each transmission, only be available to shut the system down if something went wrong.

That is about the same time they reduced, then eliminated logging requirements.

I'm thankful for Motorola, GE and others who made the "taxicab" rigs (which were also used by police/fire/rescue/trains etc) that ultimately became inexpensive surplus so we hams could put them on the amateur bands and have pretty high quality equipment very inexpensively. My first 2m FM rig was a Motorola 80D in the trunk of my 1962 Valiant. Key down, and when the dynamotor spun up the headlights would dim down to about half brightness

You had one of the then modern single case radios that used miniature tubes.

I kind of miss those days.

Back then it was something new. Few hams had VHF FM equipment. You had to get the surplus commercial rigs and modify them for the ham bands. There was no way to just buy a radio, turn it on, and talk on the local repeater. Building repeaters was also quite an adventure. You found out that a lot of equipment could not tolerate transmitting for 3 hours at a time. Even some Motorola gear (early solid state receivers) suffered intermod problems, so you might end up repeating the local taxis along with hams. The 15 kHz deviation with a dynamic mic could sound real good though.

[N9YNG]

I heard someone calling CQ once on a local repeater while listening to my scanner. I nearly broke my butt to fire up my rig, because I wanted to be that guys first contact.

As it turned-out, he was new, and I was his first contact. We had a nice chat for a few minutes. Several other people joined the conversation, too. I wasn't the one who "corrected" him, but everyone was very nice about it. I was more impressed with that fact that for at least an hour, folks lined-up to speak with him.

[KA9JLM]

I heard someone calling CQ once on a local repeater while listening to my scanner. I nearly broke my butt to fire up my rig, because I wanted to be that guys first contact.

As it turned-out, he was new, and I was his first contact. We had a nice chat for a few minutes. Several other people joined the conversation, too. I wasn't the one who "corrected" him, but everyone was very nice about it. I was more impressed with that fact that for at least an hour, folks lined-up to speak with him.

Most people like to welcome new operators.

As long as they ID properly and the frequency is not in use there is nothing wrong with calling CQ.

Many follow what they find on the internet. And what is on the test.

http://www.wikihow.com/Call-CQ-on-Amateur-Radio


More power to good operating practice, You don't hear it very often now a days.