farewell to Heathkit

[KC8VWM]

Famous law: "Nothing is ever difficult for the person who doesn't have to do the work"

Another famous law: "Git 'er Done"

And the biggest complaint against MFJ is poor assembly quality. If their current process, using experienced PROFESSIONALS results in such quality, what will happens if amateurs are given the same process?

That's one of the problems. MFJ uses college kids on the assembly line. I think the demonstrated poor workmanship and soldering skills speaks volumes for itself. They are anything but "professionals."

One of the glories of Heathkit - and now Elecraft - is the quality of the manuals. That's not a simple process. Writing is easy; writing well isn't.

Step 1 - Evaluate and document each assembly process. Makes each assembly process into the form of steps.
Step 2 - Put each assembly process and share pertinent experiences/ difficulties in the form of words.
Step 3 - Include photos and diagrams where required.

Try writing something technical for non-technical people and see how easy it is.

I just did... In 3 easy to understand steps.

It would have to be expanded to cover the assembly/testing process, too.

Oh well in that case, forget it then.. too difficult...

I don't know of anyone being electrocuted at voltage levels below about 45 volts.

You can be electrocuted sucking on the end of a 9 volt battery.

[QUOTE]Most people are at least aware of the hazards of motor vehicles, and such (and still, tens of thousands of Americans die in motor-vehicle accidents each year.) [QUOTE]

Similarly, many people who are trained and aware of HV electrocution and such, but yet still 100's of them die in accidents each year.

A device which uses high voltage and stores it even when unplugged is not something most people are experienced with.

I am aware of this.. Anyone else around here besides myself who are also aware of such fact? It comes with the territory. "Most people" are probobly not building linear amplifiers and no were not suggesting selling linear amplifier kits for all ages 5 and up for people shopping at Walmart.

If the manufactured unit costs $299.95 and the kit version costs $279.95, how many kits will be sold?

The benefit of a kit is also in the fact that it can be repaired over and over again. Compare that to the idea of throwing your money away on a one time use, throw away product. Kits remain in use because of that fact. Not to mention the ongoing revenue stream replacement parts would generate long after the initial sale. For example, if Heathkit was around today, they could still do very well selling replacement parts for kits they sold over 40 years ago. In fact, this explains why Harbach is doing well taking up this niche market today.

[N2EY]

Another famous law: "Git 'er Done"

That's not a law. It's a meaningless buzzphrase.

That's one of the problems. MFJ uses college kids on the assembly line. I think the demonstrated poor workmanship and soldering skills speaks volumes for itself. They are anything but "professionals."

It's not that they are college kids. It's that they're not trained and that the PROCESS is faulty.

A "professional" is simply someone who does a thing for money. If they are paid to do it, they're professionals.

Step 1 - Evaluate and document each assembly process. Makes each assembly process into the form of steps.
Step 2 - Put each assembly process and share pertinent experiences/ difficulties in the form of words.
Step 3 - Include photos and diagrams where required.

I just did... In 3 easy to understand steps.

Yep, a very good analysis. The steps are easy to understand.

What's not easy is actually doing the steps. What's even harder is doing them well.

You can be electrocuted sucking on the end of a 9 volt battery.

No, you can't. Not enough voltage. Show some documentation of folks who died that way.

Similarly, many people who are trained and aware of HV electrocution and such, but yet still 100's of them die in accidents each year.

Yes, a bit more than 400 per year in the USA.

The benefit of a kit is also in the fact that it can be repaired over and over again. Compare that to the idea of throwing your money away on a one time use, throw away product. Kits remain in use because of that fact. Not to mention the ongoing revenue stream replacement parts would generate long after the initial sale. For example, if Heathkit was around today, they could still do very well selling replacement parts for kits they sold over 40 years ago. In fact, this explains why Harbach is doing well taking up this niche market today.

The repairability of kits is no different from that of manufactured stuff. It all depends on parts availability.

I don't know how big the market is for replacement parts for Heathkits. Particularly compared to the number of parts units out there.

Still, I do agree that it would be GREAT if Heathkit came back. The closest to it we have is Elecraft, who do a fine job.

---

As I understand it, replacement parts can be had from MFJ for anything they make, and their manuals are online. So someone who wanted an MFJ product but wanted to build it themselves could order all the parts and "just do it".

73 de Jim, N2EY

[KA9JLM]

My whole point is that the only reason to get a license is to transmit RF communications over the air. How one gets to that point, off the shelf, kits, built from scratch, is irrelevant.

You can transmit RF on a CB, or any frequency for that mater, If you just want to get on the air.

I know many licensed Amateur Radio Operators that just Listen, No licenses required. But they help others, That have no clue how their Transmitter works.

A real Amateur Radio Operator gets a licenses to better their self as well as others, not just to talk.
Building, testing, repairing and Helping others is all a part of our existence, In this great Hobby.

If you only want to communicate that is your choice. You are missing out on a big part of the hobby, It is your loss. Sorry you are missing out.


I agree a cell phone could meet your needs.

[KI4NGN]

You can transmit RF on a CB, or any frequency for that mater, If you just want to get on the air.

I know many licensed Amateur Radio Operators that just Listen, No licenses required. But they help others, That have no clue how their Transmitter works.

A real Amateur Radio Operator gets a licenses to better their self as well as others, not just to talk.
Building, testing, repairing and Helping others is all a part of our existence, In this great Hobby.

If you only want to communicate that is your choice. You are missing out on a big part of the hobby, It is your loss. Sorry you are missing out.


I agree a cell phone could meet your needs.

And you evidently have a problem communicating.

I said previously that I enjoy building.

What I respond to is the hubris of people such as yourself who define AR according to what you believe it should be, why anyone should get a license, etc.

Look at what you said: "A real Amateur Radio Operator gets a licenses to better their self as well as others, not just to talk."

I want to communicate on the radio with other hams. You assume way too much, but then again, you do seem to be an expert on what ham radio is all about, and anyone who doesn't meet your definition should just start dialing their cell phone.

Wow!

Believe me, you're not "it", and you should get over yourself because it's a hobby.

[KA9JLM]

Wow!

Believe me, you're not "it", and you should get over yourself because it's a hobby.

I never claimed to be "it". I listen mostly, so I would never meet your specifications.

[KI4NGN]

I never claimed to be "it". I listen mostly, so I would never meet your specifications.

Try listening to yourself then. You certainly seem to have the definition of what a "real" ham is, and anyone who believes that most certainly thinks that he is "it".

I've known many AR ops since I got my first license in the late 60's, and I never met one who obtained his ticket to "better himself". They all got the ticket to get on the air and communicate with other hams. How they got on the air is irrelevant. The purpose of our hobby is RF communications.

[N2EY]

I've known many AR ops since I got my first license in the late 60's, and I never met one who obtained his ticket to "better himself".

I did. It worked, too. But that's besides the point. Since 1967!

They all got the ticket to get on the air and communicate with other hams. How they got on the air is irrelevant.

No, it's not irrelevant at all. All else being equal, the homebrewer is a better ham than the appliance operator. That doesn't mean the appliance op is "bad" or not "a real ham".

It's just a matter of good vs. better. Like many, many other things.

The purpose of our hobby is RF communications.

Maybe for you - and that's fine.

But Amateur Radio has many purposes besides "RF communications". They're listed in Part 97. Doesn't mean every ham has to do all of those things, just that they are purposes for Amateur Radio to exist. Doesn't mean a ham who doesn't do some of them is "bad".

All it means is that they are part of the reason for Amateur Radio to exist.

btw, the word "hobby" never appears in Part 97 nor in ITU-R regulations about amateur radio. The word is "service".

----

I think what bothers some hams is the perception that they are being pressured into public service comms, greater technical know-how, etc., etc. IOW, it bothers them that others seem to be pushing expectations on something they do for fun. As if we all have to constantly defend and justify our existence.

Is that the case here?

73 de Jim, N2EY

[KI4NGN]

I did. It worked, too. But that's besides the point. Since 1967!



No, it's not irrelevant at all. All else being equal, the homebrewer is a better ham than the appliance operator. That doesn't mean the appliance op is "bad" or not "a real ham".

Why?

We've all met ops who were experts in RF comms but were still lids, and the so called "applicance" ops who were great operators.

Home brewing has nothing to do with one's qualities as an operator.

It's just a matter of good vs. better. Like many, many other things.

Maybe for you - and that's fine.

But Amateur Radio has many purposes besides "RF communications". They're listed in Part 97. Doesn't mean every ham has to do all of those things, just that they are purposes for Amateur Radio to exist. Doesn't mean a ham who doesn't do some of them is "bad".

All it means is that they are part of the reason for Amateur Radio to exist.

btw, the word "hobby" never appears in Part 97 nor in ITU-R regulations about amateur radio. The word is "service".

It is a service designated for hobby use: "soley with personal aim and with no pecuniary interest".

Just because they didn't use the word hobby doesn't mean that isn't what it is, just as the use of the word service does not mean what many on here take it to mean. No one joined a service when they got their ticket, just as no one joined anything when they obtained electrical service for their homes. We are licensed users of an RF service allocated for hobby radio communications via Part 97.

What's listed in PArt 97 is the reasons for Part 97. The definition of AR is in there also, and within that definition is the purpose.

----

I think what bothers some hams is the perception that they are being pressured into public service comms, greater technical know-how, etc., etc. IOW, it bothers them that others seem to be pushing expectations on something they do for fun. As if we all have to constantly defend and justify our existence.

Is that the case here?

73 de Jim, N2EY

I feel no need to justify anything. As already noted, I've always enjoyed building things, but it has never been a measure of an AR op for me. We get the ticket for the authorization to get on the air and transmit RF on our bands. The only reason to transmit is to communicate. You do it well or you don't, and that has nothing to do with whether or not you build your own.

[N2EY]

Why?

We've all met ops who were experts in RF comms but were still lids, and the so called "applicance" ops who were great operators.

You missed the "all else being equal" part. Technical know-how is an important tool in a ham's toolbox.

And while I have encountered techno-experts who were poor ops, I am yet to find an appliance op who is a truly great operator. I have found that the truly great ops also have at least some technical understanding, which helps them get the most out of their setup - whatever it is.

But that's just me. And it's beside the point.

Home brewing has nothing to do with one's qualities as an operator.

Yes, it does. I'm living proof.

It is a service designated for hobby use: "soley with personal aim and with no pecuniary interest".

Nope. The word "hobby" is never used. "Personal aim and no pecuniary interest" simply means we're not paid. Would you call a volunteer firefighter a hobbyist?

Besides the point anyway.

Just because they didn't use the word hobby doesn't mean that isn't what it is, just as the use of the word service does not mean what many on here take it to mean. No one joined a service when they got their ticket, just as no one joined anything when they obtained electrical service for their homes. We are licensed users of an RF service allocated for hobby radio communications via Part 97.

"Service" is simply the word to identify a particular category of radio. But they don't use the word hobby to describe the service.

What's listed in PArt 97 is the reasons for Part 97. The definition of AR is in there also, and within that definition is the purpose.

No, it's the reasons for Amateur Radio to exist.

I feel no need to justify anything. As already noted, I've always enjoyed building things, but it has never been a measure of an AR op for me. We get the ticket for the authorization to get on the air and transmit RF on our bands. The only reason to transmit is to communicate. You do it well or you don't, and that has nothing to do with whether or not you build your own.

Sure it does.

As I said before:

All else being equal the ham who homebrews is a better ham than the appliance op.

73 de Jim, N2EY

[KI4NGN]

You missed the "all else being equal" part. Technical know-how is an important tool in a ham's toolbox.

And while I have encountered techno-experts who were poor ops, I am yet to find an appliance op who is a truly great operator. I have found that the truly great ops also have at least some technical understanding, which helps them get the most out of their setup - whatever it is.

But that's just me. And it's beside the point.



Yes, it does. I'm living proof.



Nope. The word "hobby" is never used. "Personal aim and no pecuniary interest" simply means we're not paid. Would you call a volunteer firefighter a hobbyist?

Does the volunteer firefighter start fires to put them out? Or is he volunteering to perform a vital community function that would otherwise not be available? No, that is not a hobby.

The definition of hobby is more than "not getting paid". Look up the definition of the word hobby.

AR is a hobby.

Besides the point anyway.



"Service" is simply the word to identify a particular category of radio. But they don't use the word hobby to describe the service.

Yes, and that category of radio usage is for hobby interests.

I know how the word service is used: you're the one who introduced it into the discussion.

No, it's the reasons for Amateur Radio to exist.

It is the preample to Part 97, and it explains why the Part came into being. The definition of Amateur Radio, as specified in Part 97, explicitly states its purpose. I don't know why you and others ignore that.

Sure it does.

As I said before:

All else being equal the ham who homebrews is a better ham than the appliance op.

73 de Jim, N2EY

I only care about the quality of the operator. You say that more knowledge makes them a better operator. No argument. Skill at designing and building is not the same thing. You've already conceded that you've encountered "techno-experts who were poor ops", so that refutes your own argument.

I caught "all else being equal". Differing opinions of what a "better" ham is. All else being equal, then they are equal quality hams to me. You think a better ham, I think an equal ham who has some skills that others don't.

The difference between our hobby and CB and other services is that we are allowed to build and maintain our own equipment, but it is certainly not our purpose, which is to communicate.

I won't discuss this any further because it's a years old discussion. Some believe with all of their hearts that AR is something other than a hobby. Myself and many others know that it is not.

I know that I'm not alone with my opinion. From the eham.net site:

If you were to ask a dozen different amateurs what ham radio meant to them chances are you would get 12 different answers. Radio amateurs have discovered a richly rewarding high-tech hobby that has many different appeals to different people. Whether it is the ability to talk to local friends over the radio waves using a hand-held transceiver (HT), communicating digitally with packet radio to exchange personal messages or vital information in an emergency, talking to other hams anywhere in the world, or engaging in contests with other Radio Amateurs over the airwaves there is something for everyone. The section What Hams Do gets into more detail about these activities.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amateur_radio

Amateur radio is a hobby with many facets and thus attracts practitioners with a wide range of interests.

from the ARRL:

Ham Radio operators are self trained hobbyists.....

Many other hits can be found. Only those who want it to be more than a hobby for some personal ego (or whatever) reason insist that it is not.

I won't change your mind, and you're not going to change mine.