Online petition to FCC to void HOA and developer antenna restrictions

[W4PG]

And if I was the arbitor of what is "reasonable" it would be what you already have operating.. Since it is so successful and certainly reproducable (did I make up a word?),
this acomodation should float.. Nothing need change. Hams in these communities just need to do what you did.. Why all the fuss? You have, more or less, proven that
these antenna restrictive HOA's have very little impact on hams ability to communicate.

Lee
NI7I

HOAs that prevent *ANY* outside antenna seriously impact the ability to communicate. The "reasonable" standard has worked just fine when it comes to building permits from municipalities in my experience. No reason it couldn't work with HOAs as well. None at all.

.............Bob

[WB2WIK]

In my experience, which may not be the norm, most local disaster comms in on VHF. However it's possible the local repeaters are down and without power or maybe even destroyed, so VHF may need to be simplex; in which case a very high antenna is the only thing that will link it to the outside world, since a small, lower antenna is not much better than using a megaphone.

Then, there's the recent case of the ham in southern CA who literally did rescue a sinking boat off the coast of South America. He made contact with them when the Coast Guard couldn't hear them at all, so without a land based ham on HF with a big beam and a tower, they would have sunk and died. Period. He was the savior, and it only happened a few years ago (reported all over). The commercial maritime services and the Coast Guard cannot compete with a well equipped ham station...they don't have big enough antennas.

So although I'm not involved in Emcomm much at all, I can certainly see the value and why "big, high antennas" can absolutely be required to make it all work.

[NI7I]

And you should know that there are a number of ways to engineer your vertical to work just fine as an NVIS. Personally, I have nop problems with mine
working fairly close in on 160 or 80.. Outside two meter range I dont have a problem if I chose. Of course, during the disaster, you can
rig whatever antenna you care to.. "

I would portray you as that poster boy for what you have accomplished. You ignore what you can accomplish, I believe, to make your point.[
I do see a bullet hole in your shoe.. maybe two..Q

Lee
NI7IU

OTE=N4UM;2530498]I have proven no such thing even though one might suspect you're implying that I've shot myself in the foot! DX is one thing. Local stuff is something else. Many folks don't seem to realize that. I know you're aware of it but may have chosen to simply ignore it ...and it's the local stuff that is important in an emergency. My clandestine vertical might do a semi-decent job when talking to Central Africa or Mongolia but it sucks when trying to talk around the state of Florida. It won't do anybody any good after a Florida hurricane. My bent-in-every direction attic dipole makes a good "alligator" type NVIS antenna on the lower HF bands. It transmits well around the state but high noise levels in my attic due to wiring, flat screen TV's and a lot of other noise sources make it pretty useless for receiving unless I employ Olivia, MFSK or some other high noise/weak signal digital mode. My attic VHF antenna with the top about 15 feet above ground is not a great local coverage antenna either.

You've portrayed me as a "poster boy" for amateur radio in an HOA but ignore the fact that my abililty to communicate over relatively short distances such as those typically involved in emergency communications has been severely compromised by my HOA's restrictions. I don't think the folks in central Africa or Mongolia will be of much help to Floridians when mother nature does what mother nature often does down here.

BTW ...

We had 1500 signatures on the petition an hour ago [/QUOTE]

[W4PG]

And you should know that there are a number of ways to engineer your vertical to work just fine as an NVIS.

I guess he would need to take his flag pole and lay it down flat on the ground. That would work. Sort of . . . .

[NI7I]

First of all, it's great that the sailors on the sinking boat in South America were saved. I don't recall the incident. I was probably at sea when it happened.
Idon'tt know the situation of this incident.. I can relate to others however. I have a problem with many sailors who go cruising off shore unprepared.
Although there are, for all practical purposes, no commercial coast stations. Message traffic is done now over the INTERNETet via Inmarsat. There is, however
a global network of stations within the GMDSS systemMostTst of them hasophisticatedted beam antennas as well as wire arrays and rather large verticals.
TodaY, a boater that does not have a GMDSS console , an EPIRB, a SART, and an Iridium phone is being foolish. I dont know which coast of SA the boater
was off but today, both are well covered by the system. The call for help can be automated needing very little input by the boat.. With the Iridium phone,
He could call anybody in the world from any where in the world except antartica.. All he would need would be some phone numbers laminated in his
pilot station. If he sank, the EPIRB would transmit his identity and his position within minutes. The SART would paint his position on any vessels 3 cm
radar. All of thesae things would have certainlyt been a surer bet for his salvation than a ham radio operator.. Hi was extremely lucky. I could never
understand why boaters spend all that money for a boat and try to save pennys on communications gear. Again, it's great that amateur radio saved
his bacon... Could hvre been better (again, I am not familiar with this particular case) if he made the call himself to the loal authorities.

Enough of my preaching.. Having made my career as a sparks at sea, I feel passionately about this sort of thing.. sorry to have taken the pulpit..
cant say it wont happen again but I'll try.. Perhaps 4 fingers of Anejo Pampero Aniversario..

Lee
NI7I

In my experience, which may not be the norm, most local disaster comms in on VHF. However it's possible the local repeaters are down and without power or maybe even destroyed, so VHF may need to be simplex; in which case a very high antenna is the only thing that will link it to the outside world, since a small, lower antenna is not much better than using a megaphone.

Then, there's the recent case of the ham in southern CA who literally did rescue a sinking boat off the coast of South America. He made contact with them when the Coast Guard couldn't hear them at all, so without a land based ham on HF with a big beam and a tower, they would have sunk and died. Period. He was the savior, and it only happened a few years ago (reported all over). The commercial maritime services and the Coast Guard cannot compete with a well equipped ham station...they don't have big enough antennas.

So although I'm not involved in Emcomm much at all, I can certainly see the value and why "big, high antennas" can absolutely be required to make it all work.

[NI7I]

How has it seriously impacted N4UM's ability to communicate? He seems to have set his own reasonable standard that works well for him.

HOAs that prevent *ANY* outside antenna seriously impact the ability to communicate. The "reasonable" standard has worked just fine when it comes to building permits from municipalities in my experience. No reason it couldn't work with HOAs as well. None at all.

.............Bob

[W4PG]

First of all, it's great that the sailors on the sinking boat in South America were saved. I don't recall the incident. I was probably at sea when it happened.
Idon'tt know the situation of this incident.. I can relate to others however. I have a problem with many sailors who go cruising off shore unprepared.
Although there are, for all practical purposes, no commercial coast stations. Message traffic is done now over the INTERNETet via Inmarsat. There is, however
a global network of stations within the GMDSS systemMostTst of them hasophisticatedted beam antennas as well as wire arrays and rather large verticals.
TodaY, a boater that does not have a GMDSS console , an EPIRB, a SART, and an Iridium phone is being foolish. I dont know which coast of SA the boater
was off but today, both are well covered by the system. The call for help can be automated needing very little input by the boat.. With the Iridium phone,
He could call anybody in the world from any where in the world except antartica.. All he would need would be some phone numbers laminated in his
pilot station. If he sank, the EPIRB would transmit his identity and his position within minutes. The SART would paint his position on any vessels 3 cm
radar. All of thesae things would have certainlyt been a surer bet for his salvation than a ham radio operator.. Hi was extremely lucky. I could never
understand why boaters spend all that money for a boat and try to save pennys on communications gear. Again, it's great that amateur radio saved
his bacon... Could hvre been better (again, I am not familiar with this particular case) if he made the call himself to the loal authorities.

Which all begs the question, "Why do we need emergency help when everyone is perfectly prepared for every emergency?"

Let's just get rid of the fire department and pass laws that demand everyone's house have every safety feature and water system to put out fires known to man. Seems we could save a lot of money on unnecessary fire trucks. Yes??

The whole point of emergency preparedness is to have the means to help folks when things go awry. Not everyone can think of every scenario to protect themselves. But since some folks are too stupid to put in the life saving measures on their ship, HOAs get to keep hams from putting up the antennas that just might help them.

Sweet.

..............Bob

[W4PG]

How has it seriously impacted N4UM's ability to communicate? He seems to have set his own reasonable standard that works well for him.

He has told you that he has serious problems communicating with local hams. Verticals are wonderful antennas for DX, but you might tell us how you get one to radiate NVIS. I'd like to learn something about that, when you get a chance.

VERTICAL NVIS ANTENNA!

Seriously??

................Bob

[NI7I]

Bob, you arent making much sense here.. wh.ere did I even suggest that. What I suggested was that sailors can and should prepare
their boat before taking of on a cruise.. I mentioned several times that it was a good thing that a ham could save his bacon.. Is it that
you are just looking for an argument? That's called trolling, i believe.. Mods shouldnt be doing that. I dont recall asking for any laws
to be passed.. Just simply, that boaters prepare themselves and their boats for long voyages.. I'm going back to my sniofter of rum..
You tire me..

NI7I

I have no idea where the fire department comes into this discussion

Which all begs the question, "Why do we need emergency help when everyone is perfectly prepared for every emergency?"

Let's just get rid of the fire department and pass laws that demand everyone's house have every safety feature and water system to put out fires known to man. Seems we could save a lot of money on unnecessary fire trucks. Yes??

The whole point of emergency preparedness is to have the means to help folks when things go awry. Not everyone can think of every scenario to protect themselves. But since some folks are too stupid to put in the life saving measures on their ship, HOAs get to keep hams from putting up the antennas that just might help them.

Sweet.

..............Bob

[W4PG]

I dont recall asking for any laws to be passed.. Just simply, that boaters prepare themselves and their boats for long voyages..

I *DO* request that a law be passed, simply that when a boater is lost, when they didn't plug in the GPS and can't catch the Inmarsat, some poor soul who doesn't have a GMDSS, EPIRB, a SART, or an Iridium phone, that they not be cast astern to the DEAD SEA simply because a ham who heard them can't quite pull them in because an HOA stupidly thinks something as simple an a DIPOLE antenna will destroy the safety and welfare of a neighborhood full of mostly old folks who have nothing better to do than complain that the fellow two houses down has grass that is 1/2 half inch too high.

Which is about what most HOAs are worth these days.

Yes I recognize that YMMV.

...........Bob