Need Legal Help Dutchess -NY

[NZ9Y]

Wow! How on earth did you get to where you were in front of a zoning board soliciting public comments? It sounds like you weren't very clear with your town rulers what you wanted to do.

I just went through the city thing and now have a modest tower. When I first went to the city for fact finding, I made sure to tell the clerks I just wanted information, no I dont want to leave my name and address, no ma'am its not commercial. Ma'am, think if this as a TV antenna with a base. Really maam, do you have municipal antennas sharing the space for your TV antenna at your house? Yes maam, I said its residential, not cellular. No maam I DO NOT have to go to a zoning board meeting as this is NOT COMMERCIAL. Yes maam, its not much different than building a shed or a gazebo. Building permits? Thank you. (That was just the information desk.)

Hello permits, I am going to install an antenna tower. No its NOT commercial. Think of it as a free standing TV antenna much like the thousands already all over the city. No ma'am.... its just for me.

Asking the neighbors what they think? Did they ask me what I think before filling thier front yard with a parade of garden gnomes? Of the herd of plastic deer? Or the life size silhouette of a wife chasing her husband with a rolling pin? Antenna towers are a thing of beauty, garden gnomes are just ugly. See how subjective things are? DONT ASK THE NEIGHBORS!

I took Steve's (WB2WIK) advice and told the city what I was GOING to do, and asked what permits they required. I did go to planning to ask, since permits didn't get it. Once I made it perfectly clear that I was going to do this and only stopped to see what permits were required and what, if any, SPECIFIC and existing ordinances I should know about, they gave me a page from the city code. That page specifically addressed amature radio antennas. Funny how the "planner" was telling me about height restrictions that were clearly NOT correct when I had the actual code in front of me. I used the written code, not some city rulers opinion. I went to the permit office and got an application.

I took the application home and drew up the plans for the footing location, got the drawing for my tower off of the MFRs website and took it back. 3 days later, they told me to bring 20ish dollars and get the permit.

I dug a hole, and showed my backhoe operating prowess to the inspector. I stuck a 6 foot high stake in the ground and put the permit on top so all the nosey neighbors could see this was officially happening. I built my tower and had fun. When there was feet of snow on the ground and the weather forecast assured me it was going to be snowing and cold for many days in a row, I called for a final inspection. Not trying to be mean to the inspector, I just didn't want him spending too long out there.

This is America, its allowed unless there is a law against it, at least thats my take on it. Oh, and no city rulers opinion means much unless backed up by WRITTEN ordinance even though they dont see it that way.

I'm feeling cantankerous tonight, sorry. Wordy too. Good luck to you.

[N8CPA]

Wow! How on earth did you get to where you were in front of a zoning board soliciting public comments? It sounds like you weren't very clear with your town rulers what you wanted to do.

I just went through the city thing and now have a modest tower. When I first went to the city for fact finding, I made sure to tell the clerks I just wanted information, no I dont want to leave my name and address, no ma'am its not commercial. Ma'am, think if this as a TV antenna with a base. Really maam, do you have municipal antennas sharing the space for your TV antenna at your house? Yes maam, I said its residential, not cellular. No maam I DO NOT have to go to a zoning board meeting as this is NOT COMMERCIAL. Yes maam, its not much different than building a shed or a gazebo. Building permits? Thank you. (That was just the information desk.)

Hello permits, I am going to install an antenna tower. No its NOT commercial. Think of it as a free standing TV antenna much like the thousands already all over the city. No ma'am.... its just for me.

Asking the neighbors what they think? Did they ask me what I think before filling thier front yard with a parade of garden gnomes? Of the herd of plastic deer? Or the life size silhouette of a wife chasing her husband with a rolling pin? Antenna towers are a thing of beauty, garden gnomes are just ugly. See how subjective things are? DONT ASK THE NEIGHBORS!

I took Steve's (WB2WIK) advice and told the city what I was GOING to do, and asked what permits they required. I did go to planning to ask, since permits didn't get it. Once I made it perfectly clear that I was going to do this and only stopped to see what permits were required and what, if any, SPECIFIC and existing ordinances I should know about, they gave me a page from the city code. That page specifically addressed amature radio antennas. Funny how the "planner" was telling me about height restrictions that were clearly NOT correct when I had the actual code in front of me. I used the written code, not some city rulers opinion. I went to the permit office and got an application.

I took the application home and drew up the plans for the footing location, got the drawing for my tower off of the MFRs website and took it back. 3 days later, they told me to bring 20ish dollars and get the permit.

I dug a hole, and showed my backhoe operating prowess to the inspector. I stuck a 6 foot high stake in the ground and put the permit on top so all the nosey neighbors could see this was officially happening. I built my tower and had fun. When there was feet of snow on the ground and the weather forecast assured me it was going to be snowing and cold for many days in a row, I called for a final inspection. Not trying to be mean to the inspector, I just didn't want him spending too long out there.

This is America, its allowed unless there is a law against it, at least thats my take on it. Oh, and no city rulers opinion means much unless backed up by WRITTEN ordinance even though they dont see it that way.

I'm feeling cantankerous tonight, sorry. Wordy too. Good luck to you.

Excellent story. The only thing you forgot to mention inre asking neighbors, the painted cut out--or whatever they call it--of the old lady bent over exposing her bloomers to the world. That's a tasteful, eye catching morning sight.

[KC2ZPK]

Wow! How on earth did you get to where you were in front of a zoning board soliciting public comments? It sounds like you weren't very clear with your town rulers what you wanted to do.

I just went through the city thing and now have a modest tower. When I first went to the city for fact finding, I made sure to tell the clerks I just wanted information, no I dont want to leave my name and address, no ma'am its not commercial. Ma'am, think if this as a TV antenna with a base. Really maam, do you have municipal antennas sharing the space for your TV antenna at your house? Yes maam, I said its residential, not cellular. No maam I DO NOT have to go to a zoning board meeting as this is NOT COMMERCIAL. Yes maam, its not much different than building a shed or a gazebo. Building permits? Thank you. (That was just the information desk.)

Hello permits, I am going to install an antenna tower. No its NOT commercial. Think of it as a free standing TV antenna much like the thousands already all over the city. No ma'am.... its just for me.

Asking the neighbors what they think? Did they ask me what I think before filling thier front yard with a parade of garden gnomes? Of the herd of plastic deer? Or the life size silhouette of a wife chasing her husband with a rolling pin? Antenna towers are a thing of beauty, garden gnomes are just ugly. See how subjective things are? DONT ASK THE NEIGHBORS!

I took Steve's (WB2WIK) advice and told the city what I was GOING to do, and asked what permits they required. I did go to planning to ask, since permits didn't get it. Once I made it perfectly clear that I was going to do this and only stopped to see what permits were required and what, if any, SPECIFIC and existing ordinances I should know about, they gave me a page from the city code. That page specifically addressed amature radio antennas. Funny how the "planner" was telling me about height restrictions that were clearly NOT correct when I had the actual code in front of me. I used the written code, not some city rulers opinion. I went to the permit office and got an application.

I took the application home and drew up the plans for the footing location, got the drawing for my tower off of the MFRs website and took it back. 3 days later, they told me to bring 20ish dollars and get the permit.

I dug a hole, and showed my backhoe operating prowess to the inspector. I stuck a 6 foot high stake in the ground and put the permit on top so all the nosey neighbors could see this was officially happening. I built my tower and had fun. When there was feet of snow on the ground and the weather forecast assured me it was going to be snowing and cold for many days in a row, I called for a final inspection. Not trying to be mean to the inspector, I just didn't want him spending too long out there.

This is America, its allowed unless there is a law against it, at least thats my take on it. Oh, and no city rulers opinion means much unless backed up by WRITTEN ordinance even though they dont see it that way.

I'm feeling cantankerous tonight, sorry. Wordy too. Good luck to you.

The buliding permit process is not always that easy.

[WS2L]

I'm not a legal expert and it may have already been mentioned prior to my post. Find out if there is a club in town and attend a meeting and ask some of them what you have to do in order to put up your tower. If there is no club in town I would suggest to do a search right here on the QRZ database for all Ham Operators in your zip code, the link is:

ARRL Affiliated Club Search: http://www.arrl.org/find-a-club

QRZ Database of Clubs: http://www.qrz.com/clubs

QRZ Database Search: http://www.qrz.com/db/?cmd=1

If you do not have luck with a local club input your zip code into the last link and you should get a list of hams from your zip code. Take the local phone book and see if you can contact any local hams on the telephone and ask them if they have any information that may help you. For the ones you can not find a phone number for try doing a drive by their QTH and if you see a tower then stop in and introduce yourself and explain your situation. Hopefully someone will know someone on the zoning board who can help you on your behalf.

Gibbs (NCIS) Rule #13 is: Never, ever involve a Lawyer but in your case if you need legal assistance and are an ARRL member then contact the people in Newington and ask for a referral to a Volunteer Legal Counsel. They have Volunteer Lawyers all around the country and hopefully one near you. Personally I would not go in with a Lawyer with guns blazing but if you keep hitting a brick wall no matter your best efforts then a Lawyer and a copy of PRB-1 may be your only option. I would try printing out a copy of PRB-1 and where it can be located on the internet and include a copy with any paperwork that you fill out and submit to the town.

Good luck and keep us informed !

[WB2WIK]

That's how it use to work here in CA. Now most cities here by law have to notify nearby 'effected' dwellers of the pending permit and seek comments from same.

There's no state code for this. It's by municipality, or in unincorporated areas, by county.

Here in Los Angeles there is no CUP required for amateur radio towers anywhere in the city; thus, no notification required. Towers up to 45 feet don't even require any sort of permit; above 45 feet, they require a regular building permit only.

[WB2WIK]

The buliding permit process is not always that easy.

I've been through this a lot, at many different locations in several states, and it's not always that easy.

But it's much easier if you don't ask permission and just do what needs to be done. I never even ask what the local codes are since I've already looked them up and know that. If a permit is required, I complete an application and submit it. If not, I just install the tower without one.

Always worked for me.

[NZ9Y]

Talking to people about doing something is not the same as doing something. Doers get things done.
Just sayin'.....

[WA9SVD]

See this is why it is better to ask forgiveness than premission lol... l

Unfortunately, that attitude and tack can backfire, big time. There HAVE been situations where an Amateur has had to take down a tower because a required permit was not obtained; even an occasional situation where the same was required even AFTER zoning committee approval was given.
One has to proceed at one's own risk.

[WB2WIK]

Unfortunately, that attitude and tack can backfire, big time. There HAVE been situations where an Amateur has had to take down a tower because a required permit was not obtained; even an occasional situation where the same was required even AFTER zoning committee approval was given.
One has to proceed at one's own risk.

That has happened (including recently up in the Antelope Valley) but it's pretty rare.

It pays to know what you're getting into before you buy. I've actually scouted neighborhoods looking for big ham towers and figured if they had them, I could have one also.

That's not always the case, but it's better than doing nothing or just hoping.

[W6OGC]

There are two reasons why you cannot do what you want in putting up a tower.... local government ordinances and deed restrictions, CC&Rs as they are sometimes called.

You need to check into both in the planning stages. Hopefully you can do it in the buying stage because if you buy in an area with restrictions against antennas in the CC&Rs there is usually no way around it. When in escrow, the deed restrictions, C&R etc will be shown in your title preliminary report, or whatever they call it where you live. Read these carefully, get the actual documents referred to and read them. That's what you will be living with.

With Zoning and city ordinances, it's a bit easier because of PRB-1. With CC&R's if antennas are prohibited, you are SOL usually. If antennas are restricted, you have to live with the restriction, assuming the restrictions were validly attached to the property, which you will need legal expertise to determine usually. The rationale is that you agreed to it in buying the property with notice of the rules. So far, attempts to invalidate the restrictions have been futile, by and large. The FCC is now tasked with studying the situation, and may recommend a change similar to PRB-1. That is our only hope at the moment for any relief, that I know of anyway.

Get the book from the League and become familiar with how this works.