DSP232 multimode USB conversion not working with the soundcard setting

[N8VKX]

I've been trying a lot of different methods of trying to get the DSP2323 multimode TNC to work with various sound-card software, ie; DIGIPAN, FLDIGI, PKTERM, ect. Without going into too much detail of all of my trials, what I've been trying to do was to get the TNC to trigger the PTT in the sound card mode. Yes, it works like it should in the regular Packet and other standard modes, but not in the SC mode. I can trigger the PTT by using the VOX setting in the radio, but this unit, radio and computer will be used at my clubs' location and the VOX settings could be changed and not allow someone else to use the TNC and radio for the digital modes.
I've downloaded all the most recent drivers for this system but gained nothing. Has anyone been down this road before?

[KB1NXE]

If I am reading this correctly, you are trying to use the DSP-2232 as an interface from the computer to the rig to do "sound card" modes. If this is correct, the DSP-2232 is not capable of this at all. It is capable of doing Packet, RTTY, FAX, AMTOR, CW and a few other modes. It is not capable of the Sound Card modes like PSK, Feldhell, SSTV, etc.

The DSP-2232 was an upgraded version of the venerable PK-232. Instead of hardware modems to generate tones, it used software based modems. Therefore, with a firmware upgrade it was able to add new modems, but not modes. The DSP filtering was on the audio input (primarily) end to give greater discrimination to the signal and allow a much smaller signal to noise ratio by filter with tighter filter parameters.

Hope this helps.

Jim

[W9GB]

The AEA DSP-232 Multimode USB conversion not working with the sound card setting.
I've been trying a lot of different methods of trying to get the DSP-2323 multimode TNC to work with various sound-card software, ie; DIGIPAN, FLDIGI, PKTERM, etc.

Kevin -

FIRST, these untis are NOT sound card interfaces, that you may be more familiar with (Rigbalster, The Rascal, SigmaLink),
that are just interconencts between the RADIO Audio and your Computer's DSP chip (in its sound card).
ALL the modern Windows software (post 1998) that you listed is designed for these low cost entries (< $100) for Digital Radio Modes (PSK31, etc.).

SECOND, The AEA Multi-Mode controllers pre-date (early 1990s) the availability of cheap PCs and a DSP based sound card in every computer.
They were deisgned with the common denominator of a serial link (dumb terminal, Commodore 64, Apple 2, PC or other 1980s computer using a Temrinal program.

===
NOW, on to these pieces of AEA equipment.
WHAT AEA Controller DO YOU HAVE ??

AEA made TWO different Multi-Mode controllers, the DSP-2232 (late 1980s for satellite work) and the DSP-232 (1995-1996 just before AEA closed their doors).
BOTH of these units were over $400 when new -- they have an 8-bit processor (Z-80), firmware, and an Analog Devices or Motorola DSP (digitial signal proccessing) IC.

The AEA-2232 is a Satellite Modem with a very powerful Motorla DSP processor -- no longer mfg. and very expensive to repalce (if you can find one).
There are NO upgrades for this model from Timewave. Bob McGwier, N4HY was largely responsible for the software development for this controller --
and worked with AMSAAT AO-40 users (1999-2001) in adapting this controller for that satellite usage.
--
The AEA DSP-232 was the design that was suppose to replace the venerable PK-232 controller. It was introduced and AEA closed its door less than 12 months later.
This unit "as delivered" had software (firmware issues) ... Timewave eventually corrected these issues -- the DSP-232 PLUS model with firmware changes (change EPROMS),
AND the ability to use a computer sound card AND the Analog Devices DSP chip inside the controller.
http://www.timewave.com/support/DSP-232/dsp232plus.html

I have BOTH of these AEA controllers in my radio/digital equipment collection (as well as the AEA PK-900) --
NONE of them operated properly when I acquired them !! They ALL work now !
===

You keep mentioning a Universal Serial Bus (USB) upgrade. Did you purchase this from Timewave OR is this a home-grown situation??
The Serial to USB upgrade is for "Computer Control" of the AEA controller -- NO AUDIO travels this Serial Data Link.

YOU need to be VERY CLEAR in what you have -- there are "gaps" in your knowledge (computer control, how digital mdoes work, etc.) that are making this difficult.

===
w9gb

[KB1NXE]

Lots of wrong info in the above message.

The DSP-2232 differed from the DSP-1232 by having two fully independent MODEM circuits. This allowed you to operate two different transceivers simultaneously (FWIW, I HAVE a DSP-2232). It did have the software modem to work the birds. It was far from the only function of this controller (see the link below). The DSP-1232 had a single modem and was basically a souped up PK-232 (of which I have several with the DSP, MBX and Sound Card upgrades installed). The PK-900 replaced the DSP-1232 and about the same time the DSP-2232 was discontinued as there was little draw to the dual simultaneous transceive functions. The DSP-232 was an upgrade to the PK-232. It included a DSP filter board with software modems rather than the hardware modems and DSP filtering on the input. Software modems offer a degree of flexibility not found in hardware modem. When a new audio pairing and shift is introduced, it's as easy as a firmware upgrade to incorporate these new features.

http://www.timewave.com/products/dsp2232.html

The DSP-2232 never had a USB upgrade. You certainly could use a USB/Serial adapter. Timewave does not offer a USB upgrade to the DSP-2232. http://www.timewave.com/a_upgrades.html

The DSP-2232 was a TNC or Terminal Node Controller. It did not require a PC with a sound card to interface with the "DSP Chip". It did require a PC however. It took commands from your Terminal program via the serial port and performed the requisite function.

As W9GB said (as well as I did), they are NOT sound card interfaces. There is an option from Timewave to install a sound card interface into the PK-232. This is nothing more than an relay driven from a certain bit that a serial command can activate. It also contains several matching/isolation transformers for the audio side. It places the sound card cable on what was the external MODEM port. It uses the existing cables from the rig for the TX audio/RX audio.

Timewave (www.timewave.com) purchased the AEA Packet TNC lineup when AEA went under. They still offer upgrades to the AEA products as well as some current models.

FWIW, the PK-232 was offered as a kit from Heathkit in the model HK-232. Identical in every way to the AEA PK-232 box, with minor cosmetic changes (case color and rectangular vs. round LEDs). I have one of them as well (original purchaser and builder). It also contains the Timewave DSP/PSK/Soundcard interface upgrades and latest Timewave firmware. I purchased it in 1985. Still have the receipt!

[N8VKX]

Sorry for the info gaps. I was trying to explain without too many words, I hate typing. I have a DSP 232 Plus Multi Mode(the expensive one). My club bought it with the USB conversion already done to it. We had been only using it for a packet station for just a few years due that we only had an older computer to connect to it. I took it upon myself to get it to do more "stuff" and found a new and faster computer to run the device and do the other digital modes. I called Timewave and they suggested to use the software that was included with the unit.
They also suggested going to certain web-sights for newer programs, which I did and found out that you can use them for a trial period, then pay for it after 30 days( Digital Desktop). I had a lot of difficulty with that program because when it first starts, it looks for the com port, finds it, but then says that the parameters are not correct and needs to be changed within the TNC, which I know that is impossible to do. It says It needs to be 1200 baud, 8 bits, even parity, 1 stop. The device requires 1200 baud, 7 bits, even parity, 1 stop. Now that it has been 30 days, the program will not let me try it anymore. I tried to reload it, but it says the same thing. I tried the older PK-TERM, but it does basically the same thing, just doesn't have a trial limit and cut you off.
They also told me to use MODEM SWITCH with the PK-TERM to get things to function properly, but that little program gave me the fits also. I'm just wondering if it would be better to convert the TNC back to a 9 pin D sub serial port or would this be moot?

[KB1NXE]

Modem Switch is used to toggle the Sound Card interface. Not necessary in you case???

Also, to resolve issues with the wrong parameters, remove the backup battery.

Most likely the connection type is moot. Pull the battery and leave it out. This will cause the TNC to run the autobaud routine every time at power-on startup. The software will then negotiate the connection automagically. Also, contact the software author at W4PC. He may be willing to work something out with you. http://www.cssincorp.com/ROC_Digital_Desktop.html

HTH - Jim

[W9GB]

Kevin -

OK, this makes more sense.
I had a conversation with Randy Gawtry, K0CBH (president of Timewave) about the DSP-232 PLUS last year when I discovered
that the firmware upgrade removed the 2 PSK modem definitions found in original unit.

Richard Ruhl, W4PC usually responds (here on QRZ) to questions about PK-TERM upgrades to CSS ROC Digital Desktop.

BTW, if you did not see the September 19th announcement -- Simon Brown, HB9DRV - founder of Ham Radio Deluxe
is turning that HRD program over to Rich, W4PC; Randy, K0CBH; and Mike Carper, WA9PIE.
http://www.ham-radio-deluxe.com/News/HRDSold.aspx

Modem Switch is used to toggle the Sound Card interface. Not necessary in you case???

Kevin -

The usage of the Timewave Modem Switch program with your DSP-232 PLUS depends on the application program (running on your PC) that you are using.
IF you are using a program that expects a simple sound card connection --- then you use the Modem Switch program to "Bypass" the DSP-232+
and send your Radio's Audio to the Computer Sound Card (that is running your software)

The CSS Radio Operations Center (ROC), formerly known as PacTerm™ and PKTerm™ (MS-DOS versions), is the only radio control software that combines
the integration, automation and multitasking capabilities of Windows with the flexibility and control to operate in all the digital modes via a terminal node controller (TNC) or soundcard.
Randy and Rich worked together -- so that this program would integrate these functions -- for the modern radio amateur usage.
http://www.cssincorp.com/ROC_Digital_Desktop.html

CSS Announces Upgrade Offer Extension for Users of Old MS-DOS and Windows 3.1 Radio Software, PacTerm™ and PKTerm™ (July, 2009)
http://www.cssincorp.com/PR--Upgrade..._Software.html

I expect that future versions of Ham Radio Deluxe (HRD) will improve its native support for the AEA/Timewave multi-mode controllers and perhaps Kantronics.

Lots of wrong info in the above message.

????
Jim -
I assume you are talking about Kevin's message.

The PK-900 and DSP-232 are the legacy AEA models that Timewave offers a sound card upgrade option (ALL of this information is on the Timewave web site).
Since I have all of these AEA modems, except the DSP-1232, I know what they can and cannot do --
as well as common component failures, that end up on eBay: "It worked before I placed it in storage" -- aka -- "Broken, I did not know how to fix and placed in storage".
==
w9gb

[N8VKX]

Gentlemen, I thank you very much for you input on my dilemma, but after trying out your suggestions and using some of my ideas, I think that there is a firmware problem. I was going to contact W4PC before I came to the conclusion that I was going up against a brick wall. So I did a little experiment and discovered that I can use com 1( the TNC uses com 3) on the assorted sound-card software's that I was playing with and trigger the PTT though a serial port. So I'm going to put a mini-jack in the back of the TNC, wire a opto-isolater chip to the PTT pin on the radio 1 port, and connect a 9 pin serial connection using an RTS signal to do the job that I've been trying get for the past few weeks. It's basically the same way I've made my own sound-card interfaces with a lot of success and little expense.
Again, Thanks for your help.

[W4PC]

Im around if you need me...

Rick W4PC

[N8VKX]

Thanks, Rick. I did not realize who I was talking to. I can be a little thick-headed at times. I did try a few more settings with the TNC and computer, bur I still could not get any thing to work. Oh, well, I just ordered a few 4n33 chips from Mouser to do the conversion. I wished that we were next door neighbors and I could get this thing to you, so you could see what is going on, but this device belongs to the Preble Amateur Radio Association and this device was purchased for em-comm use via packet. But packet is dead in our area. We tried to revive it, but couldn't.
We do have some new people in our organization that look like they are going to get something going in the em-comm situation using possibly your software, or something like it. I'm kind of leaving that up to them.
And when we're not doing em-comm stuff, we have members that want to try some of the other digital modes that are out there.It's up to me to get this working for them and near flawlessly.
NJ8BB and myself are the "technical dudes" in the club and I do a lot of the troubleshooting. Not too bad for a forklift driver by day. I like to try to figure out problems when it comes to electrical and electronics.
'Nuff said. I'm glad to know that I have the support out there from you and W9GB.
Kevin, N8VKX